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| 26. Monday, May 31, 2010 8:15 AM |
| Booth |
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QUOTE: i understand the idea of pulling a chaplin, but how do you see lynch doing that as a film maker? [...] i dont see him on the rise, more like being cannonized(i.e. the golden lion from venice). is that what you mean? thats he's more part of the industry, or the dirtier word for it, the establishment, as in he has sold out? | What I meant about pulling a Chaplin is that it's harder to see him as Lynch and not as a second rate Lynch imitator. And by imitator I don't mean anyone making weird films.
Lynch hasn't sold out but he was never really far from the mainstream. The cult of personality is more of an online phenomenon, as opposed to a real life one, people loving Lynch the man more that his movies.
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| 27. Monday, May 31, 2010 8:40 AM |
| JFK |
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QUOTE: QUOTE: i understand the idea of pulling a chaplin, but how do you see lynch doing that as a film maker? [...] i dont see him on the rise, more like being cannonized(i.e. the golden lion from venice). is that what you mean? thats he's more part of the industry, or the dirtier word for it, the establishment, as in he has sold out? | What I meant about pulling a Chaplin is that it's harder to see him as Lynch and not as a second rate Lynch imitator. And by imitator I don't mean anyone making weird films.
Lynch hasn't sold out but he was never really far from the mainstream. The cult of personality is more of an online phenomenon, as opposed to a real life one, people loving Lynch the man more that his movies.
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so he's imitating himself? like, personal mannerisms and such? is it harder to see him as lynch in general, or is it you who finds it harder? because i find that a strange comment, and i would disagree on the grounds that tho, i dont know him, i know a couple people who do(an uncle(whos a painter in L.A.) and aunt of a friend) and ive never heard a negative word. or a fawning word. i gotta agree with the internet cult thing. youre right, and every movie from EM to MD was shot with large production scenes, so anyone one who can put that together based on a idea he has while meditating is closer to the maintream, but not in content of course, just being accepted by the hollywood(and french) film establishment. rather i took your previous post to be talking about mass culture. not a small social segment of people online. i know what youre talking about, ive seen it, but i dont think its all that widespread, and you gotta understand, people like us, who got into lynch before the internet was available only had friends to talk with(usually after forcing them to watch one of his films) or your local independant video store geek. most americans i know will go right to the internet as soon as they find out about something. and thats where i see you point. but how is lynch responsible for that? and moreso, what exactly does that reflect badly on? himself? his public persona? or maybe instead the people online liking the man and not the movies. to me thats not a problem. let em like him how they want as long as i can as i want. power to the people.
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| 28. Monday, May 31, 2010 8:46 AM |
| Booth |
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I edited my post slightly before I posted it and unfortunately removed the part where I said that I don't blame Lynch for any of the other stuff. They're probably a little related also, since this decline I mentioned has happened in the time since he launched his website, where he's most likely surrounded by yes-men. And women.
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| 29. Monday, May 31, 2010 9:29 AM |
| JFK |
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i can agree on that point. but, id like to add, if you watch the docs Lynch and Lynch 2, having yes men and women around doesnt seem to make the job any easier. and thank you booth for the excellent discussion.
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| 30. Monday, May 31, 2010 9:43 AM |
| Booth |
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| QUOTE: having yes men and women around doesnt seem to make the job any easier. | No, it probably wouldn't, if anything it'd most likely throw one into a period of serious self-doubt and depression.
Have you seen The Saragossa Manuscript?
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| 31. Monday, May 31, 2010 10:31 AM |
| JFK |
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no havent. im guessing i should?
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| 32. Monday, May 31, 2010 11:37 AM |
| Booth |
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Yes, you should. I'd describe Inland Empire as Saragossa Manuscript with a softer structure. Though that description might not mean much if you haven't seen it. And to quote from this essay: At the beginning of Lynch’s Inland Empire the two main stars of a film-within-the-film On High in Blue Tomorrows learn a secret. As the director played by Jeremy Irons reveals, the movie they are about to shoot is a remake of an old Polish film based on an old Gypsy tale. The second part of Saragossa is a long tale made up of stories-within-stories told by an old Gypsy, played by Leon Niemczyk. Leon Niemczyk’s last film before he died was Lynch’s Inland Empire. Coincidence perhaps, but it seems that there is more Has to Lynch than meets the eye.
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| 33. Monday, May 31, 2010 12:42 PM |
| JFK |
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very cool. and saragossa manuscript is now #1 on my netflix queue. thanks for the suggestion booth!
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| 34. Monday, May 31, 2010 1:39 PM |
| Booth |
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Great, I'm looking forward to reading what you thought. But I will say this, and it's probably redundant but still important given the circumstances; approach it as its own thing, don't watch it expecting a Lynch movie or another IE.
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| 35. Tuesday, June 1, 2010 7:40 AM |
| JFK |
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i never do. for any film. gotta judge it by the world and rules the film creates. not the world or rules you want them to be, whether that would be "(random director) would have done a much better job than (actual director)". or "i want (random movie) to be more like (a different random movie)". that style of reviewing and criticizing i consider inappropriate AND lazy.
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| 36. Sunday, June 6, 2010 9:19 PM |
| JFK |
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i have only watched it once, so i cant say much more than i loved it. very easy to see the IE analogies, and i guess my first thought is that the saragossa manuscript is to stories(in the verbal and print sense) as IE is to cinema. EDIT: i fucked that up. i should have said TSM is to cinema as IE is to film.
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| 37. Monday, June 7, 2010 10:09 AM |
| Booth |
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| QUOTE: EDIT: i fucked that up. i should have said TSM is to cinema as IE is to film. | You lost me. Could you elaborate?
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| 38. Monday, June 7, 2010 6:33 PM |
| JFK |
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sorry for the vagueness. im halfway done watching it again, so hopefully i can be less vague in the future. both films are self-conscious rabbit holes of a sort, looping in and out of themselves, and what i meant in that sentence is that one of TSM's major themes is cinema, and it works in the world of cinema, pre-dvd, pre-video, pre-beta, when everyone who couldnt afford to have a projector in their home(most people) had to go to a theatre, and usually share that expirience with others. there is much more to that word, but for me, this is part of the definition of cinema. with IE, i used the term film because, for one, i think film itself(as this is lynch's first major work not made on celluloid) is one of its major themes, and two, it exists and uses technology that is post-cinema. i did see it in a theatre, but it wasnt until i watched again on dvd at home did it start to come together(not to mention the technological and logistical specifics of how it was made). so i used the word film, for lack of a better one, to define how and why and where we currently are in our culture, specifically with movies. does that make more sense? if not, after i finish it again, id be happy to spout more gibberish.
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| 39. Monday, June 7, 2010 6:48 PM |
| Booth |
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So home video pretty much?
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| 40. Tuesday, June 8, 2010 7:42 AM |
| JFK |
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QUOTE:So home video pretty much?
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do i? or do you mean my entire thesis boils down to home video?
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| 41. Tuesday, June 8, 2010 8:49 AM |
| Booth |
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QUOTE:QUOTE:So home video pretty much?
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do i? or do you mean my entire thesis boils down to home video? |
QUOTE:so i used the word film, for lack of a better one
| Home video simply seemed like a much better word than film in this case.
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| 42. Wednesday, June 9, 2010 5:03 PM |
| JFK |
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QUOTE: QUOTE: QUOTE:So home video pretty much?
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do i? or do you mean my entire thesis boils down to home video? |
QUOTE:so i used the word film, for lack of a better one
| Home video simply seemed like a much better word than film in this case.
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i dont know, using "home video" is too much. maybe just video? yet that still has problems, because most people associate video with VHS, and really, IE is in the digital realm anyway, so video sounds like a misnomer. which is why i used the word film to contrast with cinema as two different types of expiriences and aesthetics. i think we're veering off on a tangent going nowhere here. so fuck it. i loved the movie. greatly appreciate you recommend it to me, and im going to search for more Has films. im hoping to finish the second half a second time soon, and then id like to talk more about it in particular. what we're doing right now is just semantics, and doubly difficult because we're doing it in text and not vocally, where inflection can be a better indicator of meaning. more to come.
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| 43. Wednesday, June 9, 2010 6:30 PM |
| Booth |
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| QUOTE: i dont know, using "home video" is too much. maybe just video? yet that still has problems, because most people associate video with VHS, and really, IE is in the digital realm anyway, so video sounds like a misnomer.
| It's digital video so I'd say video is perfectly acceptable. But yes, semantics. The only other Has movie I've seen is The Hourglass Sanatorium which is pretty good, but the version available on Amazon is not the proper aspect ratio and thus really overpriced. Hell, it's overpriced period.
But if this has made you interested in Polish film, I will recommend Andrzej Zulawski's movies. As far as Netflix goes, I'd say Possession is a good place to start, and for the past 28 years or so the only place to start. Sure, it's in English and takes place in West-Berlin... He's in many ways a bit of a proto-Lynch*, which only makes his obscurity sadder.
*in my opinion that is.
Edit: Fun fact, The Saragossa Manuscript, The Hourglass Sanatorium, and Possession were all in last years guess the movie thread.
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| 44. Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:24 AM |
| Rigpa |
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QUOTE: Edit: Fun fact, The Saragossa Manuscript, The Hourglass Sanatorium, and Possession were all in last years guess the movie thread.
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Yes they were, and fun it was! Isn't it time for this year's guess the movie thread???
"I'm talking about seeing beyond fear, Roger. About looking at the world with love."
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| 45. Thursday, June 10, 2010 6:26 PM |
| JFK |
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QUOTE: But if this has made you interested in Polish film, I will recommend Andrzej Zulawski's movies. As far as Netflix goes, I'd say Possession is a good place to start, and for the past 28 years or so the only place to start. Sure, it's in English and takes place in West-Berlin... He's in many ways a bit of a proto-Lynch*, which only makes his obscurity sadder.
*in my opinion that is.
Edit: Fun fact, The Saragossa Manuscript, The Hourglass Sanatorium, and Possession were all in last years guess the movie thread.
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netflix only has On the Silver Globe and The Devil, so i ordered them. possession was under save, as in they dont carry it right now.
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| 46. Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:47 PM |
| Booth |
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QUOTE: netflix only has On the Silver Globe and The Devil
| A caveat spector regarding those DVDs taken of DVDBeaver:
Unfortunately, PolArt's possibly unauthorized DVD (distributed by Facets) is a PAL-NTSC standards conversion. Since the film's look is conceptually dark with harsh contrasts, the conversion causes a lot of streakiness, smearing, ghosting, and other artefacts in the image. The film's look is so intentionally dark throughout that nothing short of a new HD master will do this visually stunning film justice.
| That's from the The Devil review, but I can't imagine Silver globe is much better. The subtitles are supposedly only one step above word salad. If you do like them please feel free to post in my poor Zulawski thread in the movie subforum. It's currently languishing on page 4.
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| 47. Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:56 PM |
| JFK |
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I'm depressed.
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| 48. Thursday, June 10, 2010 8:03 PM |
| Booth |
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Luckily the company Mondo Vision will make things all right, though very expensively.
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| 49. Friday, June 11, 2010 8:42 AM |
| JFK |
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i had to adjust the aspect to 16:10 to make it look normal on the mr.bongo version of TSM that netflix sent me. makes sense now. im 5th generation polish-american so i understand a little bit of the dialogue as it was still used by great-grandparents and grandparents of mine, and when i had to rely on the subtitles they seemed apt. and pretty fucking funny too! im amazed at how much he crammed into 3 hrs yet still nothing was superfluous. im still digesting, so no real intelligent points from me to discuss yet. feel free to give me your take or any thoughts you might have.
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| 50. Friday, November 19, 2010 2:24 PM |
| Montana |
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JFK, your posts, like IE, could do with some editing. I just can't read uncapitalised blocks of texts without paragraphs. (This comment isn't meant to be snarky.)
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