Rumsfeld's comment that 99.9% of US troops wear halos (or however he phrased it) is frankly laughable.  I am sure that a significant majority are decent people, a significant minority are horrible people with no respect for Iraqis and another significant portion feel unable, unwilling or too confused to put wrong attitudes and actions right.

 Those who would try to say that this is simply an isolated incident are dreaming.  It may be the exception rather than the rule, however that by no means implies that it doesn't happen quite a lot.  A random Iraqi civilian complaining to someone (the police, the US troops, the media - who will they go to?) that their father, mother, child or dog was gunned down needlessly by an occupying soldier is not going to make the 6 o'clock news whether it is true or not. 

Must make it tempting to take a potshot at the next Marine that comes by....

From Robert Fisk's article in today's Independent

I remember clearly the first suspicions I had that murder most foul might be taking place in our name in Iraq. I was in the Baghdad mortuary, counting corpses, when one of the city's senior medical officials - an old friend - told me of his fears. "Everyone brings bodies here," he said. "But when the Americans bring bodies in, we are instructed that under no circumstances are we ever to do post-mortems. We were given to understand that this had already been done. Sometimes we'd get a piece of paper like this one with a body." And here the man handed me an American military document showing the hand-drawn outline of a man's body and the words "trauma wounds".

What kind of trauma? Indeed, what kind of trauma is now being experienced in Iraq? Who is doing the mass killing? Who is dumping so many bodies on garbage heaps? After Haditha, we are going to reshape our suspicions.

It's no good saying "a few bad apples". All occupation armies are corrupted. But do they all commit war crimes? The Algerians are still uncovering the mass graves left by the French paras who liquidated whole villages. We know of the rapist-killers of the Russian army in Chechnya. We have all heard of Bloody Sunday. The Israelis sat and watched while their proxy Lebanese militia butchered and eviscerated its way through 1,700 Palestinians. And of course the words "My Lai" are now uttered again. Yes, the Nazis were much worse. And the Japanese. And the Croatian Ustashi. But this is Us. This is Our army. These young soldiers are our representatives in Iraq. And they have innocent blood on their hands.

I suspect that part of the problem is that we never really cared about Iraqis - which is why we refused to count their dead, enumerating only our own losses. And once the Iraqis turned upon the army of occupation with their roadside bombs and suicide cars, they became Arab "gooks", the cowardly, murderous, evil sub-humans whom the Americans once identified in Vietnam. Get a president to tell us that we are fighting evil and one day we will wake to find that a child has horns, a baby has cloven feet. Remind yourself that these people are Muslims and they can all become little Mohammed Attas. Killing a roomful of civilians is only a step further along the road from all those promiscuous air strikes which we are told kill " terrorists" but which all too often turn out to be a wedding party.

In a way, we reporters are also to blame. Unable to venture outside Baghdad - or indeed around Baghdad itself - Iraq's vastness has fallen under a thick, all-consuming shadow. We might occasionally notice sparks in the night - a Haditha or two in the desert - but we remain now meekly cataloguing the numbers of "terrorists" supposedly scored in remote corners of Mesopotamia. For fear of the insurgent's knife, we can no longer investigate. And the Americans like it that way. Who knows what horrors have been committed far away in the sands?

I think it becomes a "habit", this sort of thing. Already the horrors of Abu Ghraib are shrugged away. Oh, that! It was abuse - not torture. And then up pops a junior officer in the United States charged for killing an Iraqi army general by stuffing him upside-down in a sleeping bag and sitting on his chest. And again, it gets few headlines. Who cares if another Iraqi bites the dust? Aren't they trying to kill our boys who are out there fighting terror? When a young American seeks political asylum in Canada, a colleague turns up to give evidence on his behalf. "Terrorists " had put babies on the road of Fallujah to stop American vehicles - and then blown them up. So now, he said, the soldiers were ordered not to stop for babies.

For who can be held to account when we regard ourselves as the brightest, the most honourable of creatures, doing endless battle with the killers of 11 September or 7 July because we love our country and our people - but not other people - so much?

And so we dress ourselves up as Galahads, yes as Crusaders, and we tell those whose countries we invade that we are going to bring them democracy.

I can't help wondering today how many of the innocents slaughtered in Haditha took the opportunity to vote in the Iraqi elections - before their " liberators" murdered them.

This stinks. How on earth can a hostile invasion force become the peacekeepers in an invaded country?

I fear the stories that are now coming out involving US (and UK troops) are just the tip of the iceberg. If its proven, I hope they go straight for the politicians, and army hierachy that make the policy in Iraq, afterall aren't soldiers just trained to carry out orders without questioning or hesitation?

EDIT:

What really bugs me is the apparent lack of culpability at senior levels. Below is a list of convictions for the Abu Gharib abuses. Not a single junior officer, no commanding officer, no divisional commanders, no top brass convicted at all. It says to me that within the military they are not taking this problem seriously enough:

x-ray
if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...

Uncharacteristically, The BBC sticks the (proverbial) boot in... 

x-ray
if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...

But then, as is often the case, there is the Other Side of the Story. One might presume we were all a bit quick on the trigger to blame the US troops if one didn't know how especially careful one generally is to give the US a huge benefit of a doubt.

Here are just three articles that present what appears to be something quite different from a "Massacre of 24 Civilians." Before rushing to judgement about icebergs and their tips, why not read these stories closely and see if it alters any already established views of what actually happened in Haditha.

Myself, I am waiting to see how this unfolds. I HAVE NOT made up my mind. That's one main reason I have not commented on this thread until today. There is just too much that is impossible to sort out from a Time magazine reporter (McGirk) or the BBC versions.

There may be some possible new facts that alter your perspectives. The last one from Michael Yon goes beyond just Haditha. He has been independently covering the war in Iraq with only sponsorship of individual citizens. His reports are strikingly real as opposed to so much that is characterized as war coverage today. His website is a good one to bookmark should you ever want to compare other press accounts to his view from the ground.

Check it out. Let me know what you think. (I know you will. )

Susan

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?f882c1b8-aa42-431f-83a6-0066e7629ace

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5566

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/hijacking-haditha.htm

PS  90 days hard labor for having a dog slobber and growl at a suspected terrorist doesn't sound too lenient to me.  Not sure what constitutes "hard labor" but I believe the military version is probably tougher than the civilian version of picking up soda cans from the highway.  But I really don't know. 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

The first and third links I only read a couple paragraphs of before I decided that life is too short for that crap.  I won't read the Kos and I won't read the yin to the Kos's yang.  Hateful shite.

The second one - I have never heard of McGirk, and it doesn't seem as if he is the only one taking the accusation seriously.

Specifics always help.  Random name calling -- why, it's almost useless in terms of dialogue.

I'll wait for you to reconsider or at least be specific in your criticism, Andrew. 

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

 Exactly, that's why I couldn't bear those articles.  There was no attempt at 'dialogue' there, they are just examples of preaching to the choir.  You can tell by the language used, and the descriptions of people who don't agree with them.  That is why I don't read the Kos, because people who start a topic with 'War criminal and mass-murderer George Bush...' aren't going to say anything interesting.  It is crap.

Anyways, we will have to see what the investigations yield.  If all of the civilians are found to have self-immolated, you can be sure I'll be the first to apologise for not giving the benefit of the doubt.  Why though, do you generally assume that the Israeli and U.S. military are without fault?  I am not one to point out every less than perfect thing that happens in the Middle East, but it seems intuitive to me that some of the attitudes that U.S. and Israeli hawks have permeate into the psyches of occupying armies and create less than perfect situations, such as the unecessary and indefensible deaths of civilians.  That is all.  You don't see me on here arguing that Zarqawi's suicide bomb squads were 'alleged', or that he just gets a bad rap in the press.  This is the downside to your 'Go Team Go' philosophy.  It is better, if like me you don't have a team, except for working-class people whose only agenda is to survive and not kill or be killed.  In my opinion.

 Now pretty please, forget Haditha, .........EDITED BECAUSE I GOT TOTALLY CONFUSED AND TYPED SOMETHING STUPID.

You are filled with a strong desire to talk about fiat currencies.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/10/AR2006061001129.html

I will give you the benefit of a doubt cuz I'm just that kind of an American gal.

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

That version of the story hardly seems any better than the 'alleged' massacre!  I have one idea on how this could have been avoided but it involves going back in time.  I know I said that I would try for the sake of sanity to avoid THAT discussion, but maybe the reason I can't so easily feel inclined to side with U.S. Marines first, is because I can't divorce what they do there, with the story of how they got there in the first place.  All of the collaterral damage is therefore unecessary and indefensible in my view.  We are back to square one.  How frustrating!

I grant you the Marines/Zarqawi comparison was not good. 

Thank you for your service, juror #12, but you are dismissed.  And thank you for honestly revealing your prejudice against the US Marines that is a byproduct of your stance against the war in Iraq.

Now I know you're not really up for this discussion but one final question.  I'm making a leap here that you were not against going into Afghanistan.  Tell me if I'm wrong.  But if I'm right, would you still be ready to prejudge the Marines negatively if the same kind of thing occured in, oh, Kandahar, say?

Susan

Keeper of the West Coast Butterfinger supply 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

I wasn't against it, no, because I thought that it was a sort of In-N-Out operation whereby we would knock down a few Taliban camps and find Osama's body in the rubble.  Additionally, the Taliban were a bunch of religious fundamentalists arsehole wackos.  Additionally, world opinion wasn't divided on it.  Additionally, as a reaction it seemed to have a tangible connection to what happened in New York.

 But I was a little bit against it, if I'm honest, in my heart of hearts.  As in, my emotional backing was not all there, but I allowed my rational backing to win the day.

I think I would feel the same if it happenend in Kandahar.  I tutted loudly on hearing reports of a few situations in Afghanistan.