 |
|
|
|
|
<< |
1 |
>>
| 1. Sunday, August 20, 2006 11:27 AM |
| nuart |
Iraq. Again. |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:7632
View Profile Send PM
|
While looking at Asharq Alawsat this morning, I've come across this book review that I'd like to share. Perhaps in the streets of London and in the coffee houses on the streets of America there is a differing view but this one comes from an Arab-American (or American of Arab extraction) describing his Point of View. Peace marchers vindicated? I'm not so sure about that. The Foreigner's Gift The Americans, the Arabs and the Iraqis 16/08/2006 Book Review by Amir Taheri
Somewhere in his book, Fouad Ajami describes the war in Iraq as "an orphan in the court of public opinion." The reason is that these days even some of those who had campaigned in favour of the war now sound apologetic or even critical. In January 2003 the war was enjoyed the support of 77 per cent of Americans and received enthusiastic endorsement in the US Congress and media. Today, that support is down to 29 per cent with both the Congress and the media tempted by a growingly critical posture. Ajami, however, has no doubt that the war was both just and necessary, and says so with the help of detailed arguments based on facts and backed by his deep understanding of the complex politics of the Middle East. As an American academic of Arab origin, Ajami is in a position to see and, more importantly understand, both sides of the issue. He understands American anxieties about continued violence in parts of Iraq and regards it as inevitable that these be exploited by for partisan purposes in the United States. At the same time, he appreciates the dilemma that most Iraqis face when they try to reconcile their dislike of having foreign troops on their soil with the joy that liberation has brought. As for the gratitude that most Iraqis feel for the US and its allies, Ajami notes that it would take a long time for it to come to the surface. Ajami, who has travelled to Iraq on numerous occasions since the war, has also had the opportunity to interview almost anybody who is somebody in new Iraq's political life. As the book's title indicates, Ajami sees the fall of Saddam Hussein as a gift from the US and its allies to the people of Iraq. He notes that it would have been better had the Iraqis liberated themselves. That, however, would not have been possible, at least in the near future, because the Ba'athist regime had developed an almost natural instinct for crushing domestic opposition. The book makes at least two important points. The first is that the Iraq Project has achieved its principal objective, that is to say regime change in Baghdad. The timetable for democratisation, first worked out in some detail in August 2003, has been respected on the dot. The second point is that regime change in Iraq has released democratic energies in a number of Arab countries. Ajami believes that these genies will not return to the bottle and that, given time and American tenacity, will be able to reshape the Middle East. Read more...
Susan
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
|
| 2. Sunday, August 20, 2006 11:56 AM |
| jordan |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Admin
Member Since 12/17/2005 Posts:2274
View Profile Send PM
|
Now, now Susan, there's no point in posting stuff that suggests that the Iraq War may ultimately be a good thing. I mean, the anti-war left is already right and vindicated just a mere few years after the fact, and anything like this just couldn't be true or even possible.
Jordan .
|
| 3. Sunday, August 20, 2006 12:47 PM |
| jordan |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Admin
Member Since 12/17/2005 Posts:2274
View Profile Send PM
|
"The right is not necessarily vindicated in case Iraq doesn't self-destruct." I didn't say differently. The Right is only vindicated if we suddenly discover thousands of modern day WMDs buried in Iraq, or discover that Iraq did indeed export their WMDs out to Syria (as has been rumored). If that never happens, the right is then only partially vindicated if the Iraq Democracy creates the environment for more democracies in the Middle East (as the writer above suggests). My whole point with regards to the original "vindication" is that no one can be vindicated this early in the Iraq War history.
Jordan .
|
| 4. Sunday, August 20, 2006 2:27 PM |
| nuart |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:7632
View Profile Send PM
|
I agree that the case was never well presented by the US in particular, Erwin. I think that after the fact, Tony Blair has done many outstanding presentations of the reasons however. If need be, I'll search my files for my fave version of the Tony speech before Parliament where he outlined the differences in those who believe in a loosely affiliated international group of terrorist... As I have always said, I fault George W Bush most for his inabiliity to communicate. Others in his administration should have been able to pick up the slack but have not done so with any efficacy. Susan
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
|
| 5. Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:28 AM |
| nuart |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:7632
View Profile Send PM
|
Yesterday I bought the July-August issue of Foreign Affairs magazine. I've never read it before but I really liked it. It's not so much a magazine as a compilation of essays by 'deep thinkers.' As to be expected, many of the topics revolve around the Middle East. Something caught my eye -- a one page ad with a divided map of Iraq. Across the top -- We Need an Iraqi Union THREE REPUBLICS * ONE CAPITAL CITY * SHARED OIL WEALTH The group proposing this solution is backed by Senator Joseph Biden, someone I always felt did a good job of representing the positions of the Democrats, and suggests a solution to the war in Iraq is based on the EU model! This has been suggested before but the administration did not think it feasible. Here it is: Dividing Iraq into three autonomous portions with an international capital of Baghdad. Kurdish Republic (north), Sunni Republic (west), and Shiite Republic (south) all as one "Iraqi Union"; all equally sharing in oil profits. On paper this seem to be a dandy solution but for every invented map that has been drawn by international powers, there are problems. It sort of reminds me of the segregation that is now commonplace within the American prison system -- black gangs in one facility; Hispanic gangs in another and White Supremists in yet another. Not sure where the unaffiliated go... This solution still highlights the millenium+ struggle/battle between Sunnis and Shiites and tribal differences but could it be a temporary fix until those other...uh... rivalries... are worked out?
I'm intriqued. Anyone else? Haven't looked there myself as of yet but here's the website -- www.goalsforamericans.org Susan I just took a quick peek and see they seem to be an anti-Israeli group. Oh well, that doesn't necessarily mean their Iraqi Republic has to be a bad idea even if I question their main focus. Will read further.
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
|
| 6. Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:58 AM |
| jordan |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Admin
Member Since 12/17/2005 Posts:2274
View Profile Send PM
|
But wouldn't creating 3 republics just cause the same problem anyway? 3 groups of people who don't care for each other anyway - so what's going to stop them from doing a land grab at some point? Even the US had some major problems early on regarding borders among states, but we didn't ahve the type of "relationship" between groups like they do. I just don't see how segregating them into republics would ultimately be teh fix - maybe I'm wrong.
Jordan .
|
| 7. Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:18 AM |
| The Staring Man |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Member Since 12/21/2005 Posts:4069
View Profile Send PM
|
The 3 way separation of Iraq does have some logic but the sad fact is these tribes have been fueding for centuries. Remember your tribe is your first loyalty in Iraq. The only positive thing Sadaam did while he was in power was keeping the tribes on a very short leash and a steady diet of fear and torture. I still feel the Khurds would gladly go north, live long and prosper thus leaving the Shiites and Sunnis to fight each other with horrible consequences. Look for three new capitals and three new countries..... I do agree with Jordan on one point: The WMD's must be found for the Bush Administration to be vindicated. Glad I didn't vote for him Rob
"The only thing that Columbus discovered was that he was lost"
|
| 8. Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:32 AM |
| nuart |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:7632
View Profile Send PM
|
Rob, I like when you join in on this forum! I remember you telling me that tribal affiliation was more important than state affiliation back when we were corresponding when you were in Mosul. It would be interesting if you could share some of your experiences in that regard. This is a fact that was probably not well considered prior to going into Iraq though I know there were advisors who knew. Did you interact with any Kurds? Since they are Sunnis, one might expect some shared empathy with other Iraqi Kurds but not so? Also I'm interested in your opinion about WMD. One thing that always crosses my mind with those now commonly recognized letters is that it's a little vague. From the worst of such weapons down to the least dangerous, who can even rattle off the names of what these things were. But what's your take on the weapons we were expecting to locate? Do you think they were destroyed in 1990s air raids? Do you think they were moved? If so, where? Or what do you think is the story on that subject based on your knowledge? Susan
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
|
| 9. Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:04 AM |
| LetsRoque |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Member Since 1/2/2006 Posts:922
View Profile Send PM
|
There were no WMD's as such Susan, just intention to maybe one day possibly have a system in place to develop weapons of mass destructions programs. This was a matter of urgency! Saddam could have launced an attack on the US in less time than it takes to write one of your posts 
'I look for an opening, do you understand?'
|
| 10. Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:55 AM |
| nuart |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:7632
View Profile Send PM
|
So you're saying my posts are loooooong, James? I disagree. S
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
|
| 11. Tuesday, August 29, 2006 9:58 AM |
| x-ray |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:2611
View Profile Send PM
|
QUOTE:But wouldn't creating 3 republics just cause the same problem anyway? 3 groups of people who don't care for each other anyway - so what's going to stop them from doing a land grab at some point? Even the US had some major problems early on regarding borders among states, but we didn't ahve the type of "relationship" between groups like they do. I just don't see how segregating them into republics would ultimately be teh fix - maybe I'm wrong.
|
And if there were three smaller countries, who would get the oil? As Rob points out there are more than three factions and there tribal rivalries date back centuries.
There is another, more radical option... Perhaps if we ask Saddam very nicely indeed, he'd agree to comeback as President and we could just chalk this one down to experience. I'm joking, of course. I think.
x-ray if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...
|
| 12. Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:00 AM |
| x-ray |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:2611
View Profile Send PM
|
QUOTE:QUOTE:QUOTE:But wouldn't creating 3 republics just cause the same problem anyway? 3 groups of people who don't care for each other anyway - so what's going to stop them from doing a land grab at some point? Even the US had some major problems early on regarding borders among states, but we didn't ahve the type of "relationship" between groups like they do. I just don't see how segregating them into republics would ultimately be teh fix - maybe I'm wrong.
|
And if there were three smaller countries, who would get the oil? As Rob points out there are more than three factions and there tribal rivalries date back centuries.
There is another, more radical option... Perhaps if we ask Saddam very nicely indeed, he'd agree to comeback as President and we could just chalk this one down to experience. I'm joking, of course. I think. | Why not put LetsRoque in charge? An Irishman is just what this religiously divided nation needs.
|
Great idea, CCC. Its this kind of outside-the-box thinking that the world (and Ireland) needs right now. I say a coalition between Let's Roque and Saddam in a good cop/bad cop dream team.
x-ray if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...
|
| 13. Tuesday, August 29, 2006 2:37 PM |
| The Staring Man |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Member Since 12/21/2005 Posts:4069
View Profile Send PM
|
The Khurdish are more progressive and free thinking than the rest or Iraq. The Northern Territory of Iraq is known as Khurdistan. Its essentially the No fly zone that was imposed after the first Gulf War. Its still a developing region but its leaving the rest of Iraq in the dust. I did get the opportunity to talk with many Khurds upon my visit to Khurdistan and Mosul and did learn a couple of things: They have no love for the Sunni's They are a very proud people and consider themselves closer to Turkey than Iraq. Turkey may be the most progressive of the Islamic nations. They are more open to the west They would welcome autonomy Rob
"The only thing that Columbus discovered was that he was lost"
|
| 14. Wednesday, August 30, 2006 8:00 AM |
| LetsRoque |
RE: Iraq. Again. |
Member Since 1/2/2006 Posts:922
View Profile Send PM
|
Lmao @ this thread If I ruled Iraq the first thing I would do is kick the Brits out solely for my own credibility back home  Then I would hold a reality TV show called 'celebrity big mullah' in which all the tribal leaders (and we'll throw saddam in just for the crack) would live together in a camera-filled house 24/7 and compete for the Iraqi public's affection over the course of three months. The winner gets my job because, to be honest, I don't want to be anywhere near 50m angry Iraqis when they realise I've nicked all their oil!
'I look for an opening, do you understand?'
|
|
New Topic |
Post Reply
|
Page 1 of 1 ::
<< |
1 |
>>
|
|
Politics
> Iraq. Again.
|
| Users viewing this Topic (1) |
| 1 Guest |
Powered by JorkelBB 2006 (Version 1.0b)
|
|
|