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1. Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:53 AM
LetsRoque Now this I would pay to see...


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A live debate between 'Hidden Wire' and Ahmadintheheadjihad

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5295550.stm


'I look for an opening, do you understand?'
 
2. Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:01 AM
Maddy RE: Now this I would pay to see...


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Oh yeah, I heard about this too.  Has Bush responded yet?


"watch out for my cousin.."

 

 


 

 
3. Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:06 AM
jordan RE: Now this I would pay to see...

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Some stupid challenge like this doesn't warant a response. No 1st world leader would stoop to this level of a debate. It's a stupid challenge and is meant only so what's his face will have some rhetoric that he can throw around about how scared Bush is to debate him beause he knows Bush would say no.


Jordan .

 
4. Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:13 AM
LetsRoque RE: Now this I would pay to see...


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Yeah the bush administration dismissed the offer as a diversionary trick by the Iranians. No offence to georgy boy but he would get torn to pieces in a political back and forth with the Iranian president. Now if the offer was extended to Ms Rice or Paul Wolfowitz, that would make for a good debate!


'I look for an opening, do you understand?'
 
5. Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:16 AM
jordan RE: Now this I would pay to see...

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"Now if the offer was extended to Ms Rice or Paul Wolfowitz, that would make for a good debate!"

again - it's a STUPID challenge in teh first place because NO 1st world leader would even do this - Blair wouldn't, Chirac wouldn't, NO ONE WOULD.

So what's the point?  Again, the point is so that what's his face could call Bush a chicken so he has some more stupid rhetoric.

Even if the best debator went up against the guy it would be a stupid debate because it would turn into big stupid circus that would fit better on an episode of Jerry Springer.  


Jordan .

 
6. Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:29 AM
LetsRoque RE: Now this I would pay to see...


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my post was in response to maddy, i didn't see your post until I had posted my reply. I do see your point and agree with it. Just a bit of harmless fantasizing thats all.


'I look for an opening, do you understand?'
 
7. Wednesday, August 30, 2006 1:32 PM
nuart RE: Now this I would pay to see...


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I love Wolfowitz.

Susan 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
8. Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:35 PM
Maddy RE: Now this I would pay to see...


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QUOTE:

I love Wolfowitz.

Susan


Who? (sorry just tired and stupid today.)

 


"watch out for my cousin.."

 

 


 

 
9. Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:10 PM
LetsRoque RE: Now this I would pay to see...


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Paul Wolfowitz is Donald Rumsfeld's former deputy at the Pentagon. A very intelligent and influential man. He is now the Bush administration's top man at the world bank. He's famously also one of the architects of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) the think tank that advances ideals such as US 'full-spectrum' domination. Full spectrum meaning all things economic, military, political, space and cyberspace. Groin-strirring type stuff but completely misguided and flawed as proceeding experiments such as the 'war on terror' and Iraq have shown. Many eminent thinkers who initially advanced this school of thought (e.g.  Francis Fukuyama) have dropped it like the hot potato it is.


'I look for an opening, do you understand?'
 
10. Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:21 PM
one suave folk RE: Now this I would pay to see...


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QUOTE:Paul Wolfowitz is Donald Rumsfeld's former deputy at the Pentagon. A very intelligent and influential man. He is now the Bush administration's top man at the world bank. He's famously also one of the architects of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) the think tank that advances ideals such as US 'full-spectrum' domination. Full spectrum meaning all things economic, military, political, space and cyberspace. Groin-strirring type stuff but completely misguided and flawed as proceeding experiments such as the 'war on terror' and Iraq have shown. Many eminent thinkers who initially advanced this school of thought (e.g.  Francis Fukuyama) have dropped it like the hot potato it is.

 P.W. is also the guy who sticks his comb in his mouth before giving his hair a good rake (see Fahrenheit 9/11). Classy!!

 
11. Wednesday, August 30, 2006 8:35 PM
nuart RE: Now this I would pay to see...


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QUOTE: Many eminent thinkers who initially advanced this school of thought (e.g. Francis Fukuyama) have dropped it like the hot potato it is.


Ah, Francis "End of History" Fukuyama. I remember when he came up with that premise and I remember being less than persuaded. Plus I've always loved history and didn't want to see it end.

Here's a piece from Charles Krauthammer regarding his former fellow traveler FF. I sympathize with Charles Krauthammer being misquoted and misinterpretted. Lucky the world has made fact-checking so easy. Pity FF didn't have the foresight to know CK would do just that.

It's always a bad idea to form your opinion of someone based solely on the negative scrippy-scraps generated by a detractor. And vice versa. But here's one part of a more complete story on Neo-con-men, PNAC Generation, Wars in Iraq and on terror.

Susan

 

Fukuyama's Fantasy

By Charles Krauthammer
Tuesday, March 28, 2006; A23

It was, as the hero tells it, his Road to Damascus moment. There he is, in a hall of 1,500 people he has long considered to be his allies, hearing the speaker treat the Iraq war, nearing the end of its first year, as "a virtually unqualified success." He gasps as the audience enthusiastically applauds. Aghast to discover himself in a sea of comrades so deluded by ideology as to have lost touch with reality, he decides he can no longer be one of them.

And thus did Francis Fukuyama become the world's most celebrated ex-neoconservative, a well-timed metamorphosis that has brought him a piece of the fame that he once enjoyed 15 years ago as the man who declared, a mite prematurely, that history had ended.

A very nice story. It appears in the preface to Fukuyama's post-neocon coming out, "America at the Crossroads." On Sunday it was repeated on the front page of the New York Times Book Review in Paul Berman's review.

I happen to know something about this story, as I was the speaker whose 2004 Irving Kristol lecture to the American Enterprise Institute Fukuyama has now brought to prominence. I can therefore testify that Fukuyama's claim that I attributed "virtually unqualified success" to the war is a fabrication.

A convenient fabrication -- it gives him a foil and the story drama -- but a foolish one because it can be checked. The speech was given at the Washington Hilton before a full house, carried live on C-SPAN and then published by the American Enterprise Institute under its title "Democratic Realism: An American Foreign Policy for a Unipolar World." (It can be read at http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.19912,filter.all/pub_detail.asp .) As indicated by the title, the speech was not about Iraq. It was a fairly theoretical critique of the four schools of American foreign policy: isolationism, liberal internationalism, realism and neoconservatism. The only successes I attributed to the Iraq war were two, and both self-evident: (1) that it had deposed Saddam Hussein and (2) that this had made other dictators think twice about the price of acquiring nuclear weapons, as evidenced by the fact that Moammar Gaddafi had turned over his secret nuclear program for dismantling just months after Hussein's fall (in fact, on the very week of Hussein's capture).

In that entire 6,000-word lecture, I said not a single word about the course or conduct of the Iraq war. My only reference to the outcome of the war came toward the end of the lecture. Far from calling it an unqualified success, virtual or otherwise, I said quite bluntly that "it may be a bridge too far. Realists have been warning against the hubris of thinking we can transform an alien culture because of some postulated natural and universal human will to freedom. And they may yet be right."

History will judge whether we can succeed in "establishing civilized, decent, nonbelligerent, pro-Western polities in Afghanistan and Iraq." My point then, as now, has never been that success was either inevitable or at hand, only that success was critically important to "change the strategic balance in the fight against Arab-Islamic radicalism."

I made the point of repeating the problematic nature of the enterprise: "The undertaking is enormous, ambitious and arrogant. It may yet fail."

For Fukuyama to assert that I characterized it as "a virtually unqualified success" is simply breathtaking. My argument then, as now, was the necessity of this undertaking, never its ensured success. And it was necessary because, as I said, there is not a single, remotely plausible, alternative strategy for attacking the root causes of Sept. 11: "The cauldron of political oppression, religious intolerance, and social ruin in the Arab-Islamic world -- oppression transmuted and deflected by regimes with no legitimacy into virulent, murderous anti-Americanism."

Fukuyama's book is proof of this proposition about the lack of the plausible alternative. The alternative he proposes for the challenges of Sept. 11 -- new international institutions, new forms of foreign aid and sundry other forms of "soft power" -- is a mush of bureaucratic make-work in the face of a raging fire. Even Berman, his sympathetic reviewer, concludes that "neither his old arguments nor his new ones offer much insight into this, the most important problem of all -- the problem of murderous ideologies and how to combat them."

Fukuyama now says that he had secretly opposed the Iraq war before it was launched. An unusual and convenient reticence, notes Irwin Stelzer, editor of "The Neocon Reader," for such an inveterate pamphleteer, letter writer and essayist. After public opinion had turned against the war, Fukuyama then courageously came out against it. He has every right to change his mind at his convenience. He has no right to change what I said.


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
12. Thursday, August 31, 2006 3:55 PM
The Staring Man RE: Now this I would pay to see...


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I thought the official US Policy was never to negotiate with Terrorist?????


"The only thing that Columbus discovered was that he was lost"
 
13. Wednesday, September 6, 2006 9:10 AM
jordan RE: Now this I would pay to see...

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and now this from Drudge:

Iranian president issues veiled threat to Bush, official news agency reports
Wed Sep 06 2006 11:30:01 ET

Iran's official news agency reported Wednesday what appeared to be a veiled threat from hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to President Bush.

During the same speech Wednesday, Ahmadinejad reiterated a proposal from last month to debate Bush, suggesting on Wednesday that the United Nations would be the ideal venue, his official web site reported.

The official Islamic Republic News Agency said Ahmadinejad had warned in a speech that anyone who refused to accept an invitation would suffer a bad fate. It said the statement was a reference to Bush's rejection of an invitation by Ahmadinejad for a televised debate.

The official news agency did not provide any exact quote from Ahmadinejad containing those words, but reported that he said them. It quoted Ahmadinejad directly as saying: "This is not a threat by me. This is a threat by the entire universe. The universal trend is against suppression."


Developing...
 


Jordan .

 

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