Oh so scary - kids excited about Jesus!!!! Maybe next thing you know they will be trying to convert you!! RUN AWAY!!! Before it's too late!!!

It continues to amaze me how people are "scared" of evangelical Christians but don't seem to be concerned at all about the religion of peace....

Jordan .

Oh here we go again.  It may be the norm for children to speak in tongues and worship a cardboard cut out of George Bush but its not the norm where I come from.  However, I am open to learning about different things no matter how out of the norm or scary they are to me so that's why I will go see it.

They speak in tongues and worship a cardboard cutout of George W?

Are you sure they're not just Republicans?

x-ray
if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...

I was responding more to the first post than yours: "very scary documentary about Evangelical Christians & their efforts to turn their children into good little Christian soldiers."

Yes, something like speaking in tongues can be scary if you aren't used to it. I saw some of the clips of the movie and the "worship" a cardboard of Bush seemed way out of place and odd to me so I personalyl don't know what hte context of that scene was. And probably won't until DVD release. The view of Harry Potter by some Christians is ridiculous (like the quote above). But to approach it as "scary"....

I've been to church kid camps both as a kid fully involved and as a teenager helping out. But if the concept of Christians turning their children "into good little Christian soldiers" and making this sound like a bad or "scary" thing is ridiculous. Thus my point - it's amazing that people will be scared of this, but not care at all about the real dangers of extreme Islam. The most these kids are ever gonna do to someone is offer a salvation message that someone can just ignore and move on.

"Are you sure they're not just Republicans?"

Probably since the Democratic Party seems to continue to alienate Christians, esp Evangelicals.  

Jordan .

I, too, was a good little Christian soldier and so is my daughter.  But is this the same thing where they raise the kids to be Nazis in the name of God or something?  Wasn't that on the Discovery channel not too long ago.  Speaking in tongues kind of throws me.  How do they do that!?  That's kind of neat.

So sitting at the dinner table with my cardboard cutout of George is wrong...Uh...woops!

You know, I am ashamed to say but I thought Harry Potter was very bad until about 4 years ago.  I remember Cass wearing a Hedwig sweatshirt to preschool and they "talked to me" about it.  I just thought it was an owl.  Now she's almost done with the series and...we know we're not witches and wizards and we don't perform the Cruciatus Curse on anyone.

"The filmmakers do their best to remain objective, but the tone I got was cautionary, rather than celebratory "

As you very well know, a way someone can edit scenes in such a way that it's not objective. I read about one scene in which something is happening and then there is this sudden scene of a dog laying down and then huffs -- the dog belongs to one of the 3 kids they are following. The viewer who I read this from says that he got the impression that this was the filmmakers way of making a comment without saying a word. 

"I was being literal, as in militaristic "

And can you please explain the context in which they are being militaristic. What kind of war are they supposed to be fighting? Political? Spiritual? Both? Was anything ever mentioned about putting the armor of God on? Or was that part not shown to you?

"They very definitely have an overt political agenda in mind. They aren't worshipping the Bush cutout, but talk to it, as in trying to influence the leader of the Free World (can you say "theocracy"?)."

THEOCRACY? Oh please. that is not a theocracy, nor does anything you say look anything like a theocracy. Go spend a month in Iran and then come back and tell me what a theocracy is. And who cares if they have a political agenda. It's about time evangelical christians and churches started getting into the political forray (Black churches have been political since the 60s and no one seems to mind that). Nope - only bad when extreme Christians get involved is there a sudden concern.  The scene with the kids praying for Bush (using a Bush cutout) is stupid IMO. Extremely stupid, and looks even worse (as if they are worshipping the cutout as so many blogs and reviews seem to make it out to be). Kids leaning up to touch Bush's hands in their prayers is just kids being kids. The Bible teaches you should pray for your leaders -- those you support and don't support. In this case, I would say this is extreme, but there's at least some sort of Bibclical principle being taught.

"And the Jesus Camp kids are right in our back yard (Devils's Lake, N. Dakota, to be exact). "

So? 90% of these kids will go to "Jesus Camp" a few times in their lives, graduate home school or public, maybe go to a secular or Christian college, get married, be life-long Church members (or close to it) and will end up working hard the rest of their lives. They probably won't be a strain on scoiety. They will work, pay their taxes, marry, have 2.5 children and live peaceful, maybe politlcal, lives.

In the end, that's the true "danger" of kids going to Jesus Camp. As I said before, that's really scary.

Jordan .

So what you're saying Jordan, is that the long term damage done to these poor brain-washed kids is that they risk becoming normal, slightly boring but well adjusted members of society that pay their taxes and contribute to the economy.

That's scandalous.

x-ray
if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...

"So what you're saying Jordan, is that the long term damage done to these poor brain-washed kids is that they risk becoming normal, slightly boring but well adjusted members of society that pay their taxes and contribute to the economy."

Pretty much.

Here's the thing - most of these kid will go to Jesus Camps once or twice in their lives. A few may go every year up until they are about 12 or 13. In order to get true brain-washing, you have  to endure the brain-washing each and every single day. Some of these kids have home-schooling which one could argue pushes the "brain-washing" but the majority go to normal ol' public school. Each and every single kid is confronted with normal American society which is far from "religious." They end up growing up to be normal ol' boring people with no death wish and the thought of warring against anyone is the last thing on their mind. Yeah, they may believe in a extreme, illogical things that others cannot accept, but then almost everyone has their own extreme (sometimes illogical) beliefs that others don't subscribe to,

In  the end, we all become generally mainstream with very few exceptions to the rule no matter what happens when someone grows up going to a "Jesus Camp" once a year for a few years.

Jordan .

Ray's comment got me thinking about all the childhood experiences one can be subjected to over those years where your own personal will is largely ignored. You are forced to rise in the morning when your parents make you, go to school countless days of the year because the state makes you, eat what both your parents and your school feed you, go to bed when they tell you. You have to wear the clothes they choose for you, brush your teeth whether you want to or not, have needles stuck in you from infancy onward, and forbid you to say certain words that they don't like. They make you do the 'chores' they tell you to from household to homework, decide how you'll spend your summers whether it's summer camp or summer job. They make you spend time in the dreary homes of elder relatives or family friends. They take you into stores with fragile objects and then tell you "don't touch don't touch don't touch" while they touch.

So little freedom. So many adults trying to shape and mold you! There are bound to be some of these many encounters that, upon reflectiion as an adult, you laugh at or mourn over, but are grateful you survived with your very own MIND. If you think about them, we can all remember situations we HAD to endure but even as a child we told ourselves I won't accept this. Somewhere in a Chinese re-education camp there were likely kids who held onto their own faculties and rejected what they knew did not make sense. Somewhere in a Soviet-run orphanage where a child was lectured that his parents where enemies of the state, there was a kid who would not believe the authorities.

It's a balancing act. If you push a child too far, they're going to retain their negative feelings about that push well into their adult years. Think of the kids forced to practice piano. Kids sent to fat camps. Kids forced to attend cotillion classes. Kids worked like hired hands on the family farm. Or kids forced to shoplift to support their parents crack habit. Then there's the kids like Macauley Culkin to spend their childhood days going from audition to audition to support their parents.

Hey, we all have our crosses to bear. So to speak. I once heard it said that no matter how good a parent you are, you will damage your child. Yeah, and no matter how bad a parent you are, you will benefit your child. In most cases the human spirit prevails and most people grow up having survived a great variety of influences, sort through them, and make their own choices.

Films like Jesus Camp (and no, I haven't seen it) are made as an indictment of the group they chronicle. The anthropoligical study of an alien people.  Yes, I've seen the clips. I've watched the woman who runs the camp being interviewed. I heard the NPR interview of the woman who made the film. Both of those women may disagree with my take. But ultimately, who is the target audience? Those who find the Looming Theocracy of Evangelical Christians the greatest problem (outside of Global Warming) facing the US today. And I still persist in saying that this target audience is as obsessed with Christianity as those they would condemn and mock within the Jesus Camp hierarchy. And THAT is the irony.

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Jordan

It's refreshing to have somewhere here with a SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE!!  Love your work.

From what I've seen of the doco, some of the things they were getting up to seemed a bit dodgy and non-Biblical, but I suspect that may be due to the doco maker's craft more than anything else...

Chris - I'm still curious about something I wrote above: "And can you please explain the context in which they are being militaristic. What kind of war are they supposed to be fighting? Political? Spiritual? Both? Was anything ever mentioned about putting the armor of God on? Or was that part not shown to you? "

The movie isn't even playing in the KC area so it's not really my fault that I am speaking out of hand which is why I said I probably won't see it until DVD. KC is not normally a market that receives documentaries and movies like this.

Jordan .

Jordan, do you mean to tell me Kansas City is not filled with...

INTELLIGENT

LIBERAL

SECULAR HUMANISTICALIFRAGILISTIC

DOCUMENTARY WATCHING

ABLE TO SORT OUT INTENTIONAL FROM UNINTENTIONAL HUMOR

...movie goers?

In which case it makes you wonder how this film has grossed $490,000 after 31 days of national screenings. Probably 50,000+ persons fitting that description have seen this film SOMEWHERE.

But take heart! There are still some American cities bravely willing to showcase dangerous documentaries alerting the Sheeple to the Looming Theocracy. Okay, so it's also true that by the time the DVD is released, those same Whistle Blowing Free Thinkers may all be incarcerated in Secret Dissenter Gulags, where they'll be water-boarded (and i don't mean surfing), and deprived of even more civil rights by the Fascist Insect that preys (and I do mean PRAYS!) on the People.

Interesting times indeed!  Keep the Non-Faith, Baby!!!

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Own away, Chris.  Far be it from me to prevent your emotions.  I really don't have that kind of power.

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

"....but I am concerned that a group this estimable & zealous has a convert in our commander-in-chief.  "

That's what some were saying about the first Catholic president.

Chris, thought you were all about tolerance, understanding, and all that fun stuff. Making such rash comments is far from tolerant or understanding.

Jordan .