This story just gets weirder and weirder.  First there's a group of guys who strip their victim, perform sex acts on her, urinate on her, set her hair on fire, and then distribute a DVD with their names and addresses on it?!?

Now exposed, they are apparently unrepentant, labelling it a bit of fun???

But then...their parents come out in support of the boys saying what they did was harmless?!?!?

And just when it can't get any worse or weird, the #1 Muslim in Australia says it's the girl's fault.  That women who go out in public with makeup on, or who aren't wearing hijab, are just asking for sexual assault??!?  I didn't think my respect for Islam could get any less, but it has!!

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20646925-2,00.html 

DVD thugs face rape charge

By Paul Anderson

October 26, 2006 06:00am

Here are their personal blog sites - feel free to add a comment:

www.myspace.com/boofaloveslivvy
www.myspace.com/retro_paku
www.myspace.com/dr_porto
www.myspace.com/35129496

What is even more sickening is the support these freaks of nature are getting from their circle of friends!

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20645635-2,00.html 

Sheik Hilaly likened women who wore makeup and dressed immodestly to meat that attracted cats.

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?" the sheik said.

I guess this is in line with Shariah Law - where 4 male witnesses are required to prove a rape case.  I recall a couple of years ago a Nigerian woman stoned to death because she was raped by 3 men - 1 witness short (assuming they all decided to testify against themselves!).  Little wonder so many women are beaten or killed in Islamic countries for their crime of being a rape victim...

And the response from our Federal Treasurer is on the money:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20647684-421,00.html

Mufti's remarks 'totally unacceptable'

October 26, 2006 09:24am

At least he implicitly recognized that the perpetrators were not men, but animals. These are the kinds of areas in which my principles against cruel and unusual punishment get a little wobbly, I'm afraid.

Well, it looks like the negative publicity has caught up with the mufti.

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

The Quran does say that in order for there to be a legittimate rape, four MEN have to testify that a rape happened.

As long as those in the Muslim world continue to view women as objects to own (much like Muhammed taught), you're going to have this sort of thing happen.

It's gross and despicable.  

Jordan .

Yeah the Mufti is copping a great deal of flack over here in Oz and deservedly so.

However, in the interests of honesty, the situation involving the teenage girl who was sexually harrassed and abused by a number of teenage boys, including the boys urinating on her and distributing a degrading DVD was unrelated to the Mufti's comments. The two events occured coincidentally and were reported for the first time on the same day. Moreover, the boys (along with the parents and friends who defended their actions) were all of white anglo-saxon origin. Interesting, huh?

When it's a whitey we condemn their actions and at best the times we live in. When it's a muslim we condemn their race and religion. The muslims are managing their affairs very badly, but the critique of Muslims and their culture in the West is too often merely hot-headed bad temper and leaves much to be desired.

Beauty is momentary in the mind -
The fitful tracing of a portal;
But in the flesh it is immortal.
The body dies; the body's beauty lives.
So evenings die, in their green going,
A wave, interminably flowing.
So gardens die, their meek breath scenting
the cowl of winter, done repenting.
So maidens die, to the auroral
Celebration of a maiden's choral.
Susanna's music touched the bawdy strings
Of those white elders; but, escaping,
Left only Death's ironic scraping.
Now in its immortality, it plays
On the clear viol of her memory,
And makes a constant sacrement of praise.

('Peter Quince at the Clavier' by Wallace Stevens)

Then again ... read on:

 Friday October 27, 07:22 PM

Defiant Sheik fires broadside at Bush

A defiant Sheik Taj Aldin Alhilali says he will only resign when the world is "clean of the White House".

Under pressure to step down following his comments suggesting immodestly dressed women invite sexual assault, Australia's leading Muslim cleric did nothing to ease simmering tensions on Friday.

After emerging from prayers at Sydney's Lakemba Mosque surrounded by dozens of followers, Sheik Alhilali was asked by a media pack whether he would quit.

"After we clean the world of the White House first," the sheik said before being ushered into a waiting car.

His supporters cheered and applauded loudly at the salvo aimed squarely at US President George W Bush and indirectly at Prime Minister John Howard.

The sheik has previously described Mr Bush, Mr Howard and UK Prime Minister Tony Blair as the "axis of evil" and has been accused of applauding suicide bombers in the past.

Mr Howard would not comment on the sheik's White House barb, but had earlier warned that the Muslim leader's actions could cause a lasting backlash against Muslims, a fear echoed by many Islamic groups.

"What I am saying to the Islamic community is this: if they do not resolve this matter, it could do lasting damage to the perceptions of that community within the broader Australian community'," Mr Howard told Southern Cross radio.

Sheik Alhilali is to take a break from preaching in the wake of the controversy, which has attracted international media coverage.

But the Lebanese Muslim Association (LMA) also fears a split in the Islamic community and has told the sheik to tone his comments down in future.

LMA president Tom Zreika believes the sheik is "arming" sections of the broader Australian community for further animosity toward Muslims.

"The mufti is providing ammunition for that," Mr Zreika said.

"His comments aren't helping.

"We've got to watch the way we're arming everybody to attack us.

"Not in the near future, but it harbours ill-feeling toward another group.

"He said he would do his best (to tone his comments down). He's got to be able to be more eloquent in his speech."

Mr Zreika said many of his association's members were embarrassed by the mufti's comments, made in a sermon last month, and said he was not speaking for all Muslims.

The board of the LMA, which runs Lakemba Mosque where the sheik preaches, met with him on Thursday night and decided not to take any action against him.

Some of the 15 board members supported the sheik's opinion while others called from him to retract the comments.

Other Muslim figures want the sheik to stand down over the sermon, in which he also said women were to blame for adultery in 90 per cent of cases.

Mr Zreika said the LMA will review Sheik Alhilali's position at the mosque when he returns from holiday.

Supporter and president of the Islamic Friendship Association of Australia, Keysar Trad, says while the sheik will not resign, he is taking a break for several months, which will include a pilgrimage to Mecca.

Sheik Alhilali did not deliver his usual sermon as several thousand Muslims attended prayers at Lakemba Mosque on Friday, with British Imam Abdul Jalil Sajid speaking on his behalf.

But he was assured by followers at Lakemba that he has the full backing of grass-roots Muslims.

"We're certainly not going to pass judgment on the basis of one comment in which we know his intentions were completely different," Mr Trad said.

"The grass roots are behind him."

Mr Trad said the sheik's comments were misrepresented and he has been upset by the reaction.

Federal Sex Discrimination Commissioner Pru Goward says everyone always claims to have been taken out of context when caught.

"It is not good enough just to say he will be silent for three months," she said.

So long as the Muslim community in Australia fails to differentiate themselves from the views of the Mufti by not taking appropriate and proportionate disciplinary action against the him, which should involve a demand that he make an unconditional apology and resign his position as mufti of Australia, the Muslim community really should not wonder why the are being painted with the same brush as him and other fundamentalist dolts. A number of prominent Muslim women have spoken out against the Mufti but the negligible 'slap on the wrist' the Mufti ultimately received shows just how powerless these female voices are to influence the status quo within the Muslim clerical ranks. It also seems to show that the views of these women are not representative of the majority of Muslims in Australia.

Beauty is momentary in the mind -
The fitful tracing of a portal;
But in the flesh it is immortal.
The body dies; the body's beauty lives.
So evenings die, in their green going,
A wave, interminably flowing.
So gardens die, their meek breath scenting
the cowl of winter, done repenting.
So maidens die, to the auroral
Celebration of a maiden's choral.
Susanna's music touched the bawdy strings
Of those white elders; but, escaping,
Left only Death's ironic scraping.
Now in its immortality, it plays
On the clear viol of her memory,
And makes a constant sacrement of praise.

('Peter Quince at the Clavier' by Wallace Stevens)

In essence, I can't say I don't agree with you but damn, CCC, you have a seething hot temper!  

Beauty is momentary in the mind -
The fitful tracing of a portal;
But in the flesh it is immortal.
The body dies; the body's beauty lives.
So evenings die, in their green going,
A wave, interminably flowing.
So gardens die, their meek breath scenting
the cowl of winter, done repenting.
So maidens die, to the auroral
Celebration of a maiden's choral.
Susanna's music touched the bawdy strings
Of those white elders; but, escaping,
Left only Death's ironic scraping.
Now in its immortality, it plays
On the clear viol of her memory,
And makes a constant sacrement of praise.

('Peter Quince at the Clavier' by Wallace Stevens)

"When it's a muslim we condemn their race and religion. The muslims are managing their affairs very badly, but the critique of Muslims and their culture in the West is too often merely hot-headed bad temper and leaves much to be desired."

No one is comdemning their race.  That's a stretch.

My comment was far from hot-headed. It's a fact that the Quran teaches that women are objects and that in order for there to be proof that a rap took place, it takes four MEN to testify. You can't say the same about any other religion.

FACT: 4 men must testify: In order for there to be a "true" rape, the four men must testify, and furthermore, they must see the ACTUAL act. In Quran 24:13, it says, "Why did they not produce four witnesses? Since they produce not witnesses, they verity are liars in the sight of Allah." Coincidentally, this verse cooresponds with a situation Muhammed was dealing with at the time that Allah suddenly gave him a new revelation that benefited him. Men can commit rape with impunity, as long as they deny the charges and there are no witnesses to testify against them. And if a woman testifies against a man, she may end up incriminating herself. The victim's charge of rape becomes an admission of adultery. 75% of women in Pakistani prisons are behind bars for the crime of being a victim of rape. LINK

FACT: Among Muslims, female circumcision is prevelant in Egypt and surround lands. An Islamic legal manual states that circumission is required for both men and women. LINK

FACT: The Pakistan Institute of Medical SCiences has determined that over 90% of Pakistani wives have been struck, beaten or abused sexually - for offenses on the order of cooking an unsatisfactory meal. Others were punished for failing to give birth to a male child. That's far more than the number of wives/women that are abused in the West. LINK

FACT: In March 2002, 15 girls were killed in a fire at their school in Saudia Arabia because the muttawa wouldn't let the girls out of the building. They weren't wearing their burqas because it was an all girl school and they were allowed to remove some of their clothing. The muttawa preferred the girls' death to transgression of the Islamic law. LINK

FACT: Quran 4:34: "Men have authortiy over women because God has made the one superior to the other. "

FACT: Quran 2:223: "Your women are a tilth for you to cultivate so go to your tilth as ye will."

FACT: Quran 2:282: "Get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her" - in other words, a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man.

FACT: Quran 4:3: "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able tod eal justly with them, then only one, or a captive that your right hand possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice." in other words - men are allowed to marry up to four wives and have sex with slave girls too.

FACT: Quran 4:11: "Allah thus directs you as regards your children's inheritance: to the male, a portion equal to that of two females."

FACT: Quran 4:34: "Good women are obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them."

FACT: Aisha, the most beloved of Muhammed's many wives said, "O womenfolk, if you knew the rights that your husbands have over you, every one of you would wipe the dust from her husband's feet with her face."

FACT: When Muhammed saw a girl wearing "thin clothes", he said to one of his men, "when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands."

FACT: Quran supports child marriages (granted in Biblical days, children were often married to men, but no longer today). More than half of the teenage girls in Afghanistan and Bangladesh are married. Ayatolla Khomeni told the Muslim faithful that marrying a girl before she began menstruation was a "divine blessing." He told fathers, "Do your best to ensure that your daughts do not see their first blood in your house." Iranian girls get married as young as nine with parental permission or 13 without consent.

FACT: In a Muslim writing, it said that Muhammed said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning." In Islamic law, it's believed, "The husband is only obliged to support his wife when she gives herself to him or offers to, meaning she allows him full enjoyment of her person and does not refuse him sex at any time of the night or day."

FACT: As we all know, Islamic law says that the husband can forbid his wife to leave the home. According to Amesty International, in Saudia Arabia, women who walk unaccompanies are at risk of arrest on suspision of prostitution or other "moral" offenses.

FACT: Islamic law has something called "temporary husbands." To get a divorce, a man just has to tell his wife, "I divorce you." and the divorce is done. When a free man has "pronounced a threefold divorce, it is unlawful for him to remarry the divorced wife until she has married another husband in a valid marriage, and the new husband has copulated with her." Muhammed insisted on this temporary marriage in a situatio nwhere a woman was divorced, married someone who was impotent and then wanted to go back to her first. Muhammed was insistent that she could not remarry until she could have sex with the impotent husband.

FACT: Temporary wives is also supported in Islamic law. This is provision for men to gain female companionship on a short term basis. They sign a regular marriage agreement but this one has a time limit of a certain time. After that time, they can decide to continue or not. Most marriages don't go past the temporary time. Of course, you'll find websites on the Internet that say differently.

I challenge anyone to find any other religion with this number of anti-women verses and beliefs. Christianity tells women to obey their husbands, and for men to love their wives like Jesus loves. The closest you will get in Christian or Jewish theology are some OT laws, none of which are obeyed today. That's more than we can say about Islam in the Middle East.

Jordan .

Very true. The Islamic world needs to wake up and realise it is the year 2006. Muslims can't 'have their cake and eat it' in the western world. We are being asked to respect the culture and sensibilities of muslims but it is very difficult when their cultural values are stuck in the middle ages. This makes conflict inevitable on many levels.

I don't know if this story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/6046992.stm much of a splash in the US media but it illustrates how respect for others' religion stops at the point where we are being asked to compromise traditions and values that are based on plain common sense.

Jordan. Here, perhaps, is why my comments failed to resonate with you and seemed a ‘stretch’.  

Australia (where I reside and where all the drama the subject of this thread emerged) like the US is an increasingly multicultural society. One new migrant enters Australia every four minutes (see the Australian Bureau of Statistics). In other words, our societal make-up is only becoming more and more diverse. However, I daresay to a greater extent than in the US the dominant cultural group and clear majority of the Australian populus are people of Anglo-Celtic descent (I am part of this clear majority, so I'm not speaking like some disenfranchised minority). To preserve the Anglo-Celtic majority, Australia, unabashedly and deep into the 20^th century adopted an immigration policy called the ‘White Australia Policy’ – not only Nazi Germany wanted to create purely blue-eyed and blond haired gene pool. This was not merely a policy of complete assimilation, it was a policy prejudicial to just about anyone who was not of Anglo-Celtic descent simply by preventing them from migrating to Australia. The policy was altered around WWII in favour of somewhat milder policy of assimilation that accepted migrants of North West European descent. That’s still a fairly narrow and specific pool of people.

freshly squeezed

I see the issue of Islam as completely separate to issues of multiculturalism, racism etc.

I support multiculturalism, and live it.  My wife is from a different race and culture.  I even formed a Multiculturalism society at uni to promote racial harmony, appreciation for other cultures etc.

I think extremists on both sides try and lump Islam in with these issues because it suits their purpose.

The racists out there want to point out correctly the evils and dangers of Islam, but then try and make a link to all immigration, to people of other races, and so on.  Which isn't helpful.

The PC brigade try to link Islam with race, and any anti-Islamic talk with racism.  Rather than focus on the issue at hand, it's more about label throwing.

I believe it's better to examine the issue at hand - shine a bright light on Islam.  Have a look at how it works overseas.  Have a look at what effect it's had on people, nations, human rights, freedom of speech etc.  Look at it's core teachings - is it about peace or violence?  What are the attitudes taught about non-muslims?

If people feel the values and attitudes promoted by Islam are positive, then welcome them.  If they reach the conclusion based on the evidence available that Islam is a major threat to the values held dear in western societies, then they are entitled to ask why this religion is allowed in Australia.  That's not racism, or a re-introduction of White Australia policy - that's just trying to block a hate group from proliferating.

It is fair to point out the mufti's comments were not directed at the particular incident.  It's also fair to point out that he has subsequently declared he wants to see the White House gone.  He has today expressed his admiration for jihadists in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting OUR troops. The board of his mosque met and decided he has no case to answer - once again (this is about the 20th time) - he claims he was misinterpreted!  Over the years he has rattled off many hateful gems from his warped little mind - and it is a brave/foolish man who tries to defend the guy.

Tee hee, and once again when the subject includes Islam, it eventually morphs from current event or religion to POLITICS.

Funny, isn't it?

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Yes it was bound to head down one of those paths... 

The Sheikh is such a big man that he apparently was bed ridden and needing an oxygen tank, due to the pressure of people asking about his comments blaming women for rape.  As the media pressure mounted, the next day he claimed to have had a heart attack.  Excuse me for supressing a deliberately obvious smirk at this point.

Initially this weak and obvious play for sympathy appeared to work!  Yesterday's news showed support for the mufti with a mass of flowers being publicly laid outside the hospital.  Today though, it's reported that this excessive floral tribute was in fact staged, and a replay of the footage shows it all appears to have come from the same florist!

There's been a march of protest by women's groups.  In reply, on Saturday some mozzies are planning a march of support for the Sheikh.  It's very hard to get a reading on where the real muslim community opinion lies, or if it's divided.  We have the visiting head of Islam from the UK calling for the Sheikh's dismissal, along with several Islam women's groups, and most of the Australian public.  However, the Sheikh's local board The decision not to remove the Sheikh was based on "the opinions and wishes of the muslim community in Australia".  So if they support him, then they're supporting his views, which include so far:

- female rape victims are to blame for being raped.

- muslims fighting coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan are heroes.

- the white house should disappear.

And that's just this week!!  We've been listening to this turkey for years...

I'm thinking he'd be better off living in one of those dark ages countries like Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan where his views are more widely accepted as normal.

“What a bunch of disconnected idiots.”

“That mufti should get his pig ass kicked all the way back to the medieval society he originated from. F*cking scumbag!”

“It's gross and despicable.”

“Well, those boys should have their balls cut off and force fed to them before being thrown for the sharks. No need to send them back to the good old UK, imho. ”

“I'm thinking he'd be better off living in one of those dark ages countries like Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan where his views are more widely accepted as normal".

Beauty is momentary in the mind -
The fitful tracing of a portal;
But in the flesh it is immortal.
The body dies; the body's beauty lives.
So evenings die, in their green going,
A wave, interminably flowing.
So gardens die, their meek breath scenting
the cowl of winter, done repenting.
So maidens die, to the auroral
Celebration of a maiden's choral.
Susanna's music touched the bawdy strings
Of those white elders; but, escaping,
Left only Death's ironic scraping.
Now in its immortality, it plays
On the clear viol of her memory,
And makes a constant sacrement of praise.

('Peter Quince at the Clavier' by Wallace Stevens)

Looks like most of us are on the same page...

"We cannot allow a mine shaft gap"

I hear you, Brother.  Amen.

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Not sure what you're referring to but I just watched 'Whitewash: The Clarence Brandley Story'. I know we're all film buffs here, so I'll say straight away, it's not a great film but a genuine good film.

My point is, listening to the disillusioned Brandley at the end of the film, I couldn't help but feel the feeling you write of but not only that feeling.  

Beauty is momentary in the mind -
The fitful tracing of a portal;
But in the flesh it is immortal.
The body dies; the body's beauty lives.
So evenings die, in their green going,
A wave, interminably flowing.
So gardens die, their meek breath scenting
the cowl of winter, done repenting.
So maidens die, to the auroral
Celebration of a maiden's choral.
Susanna's music touched the bawdy strings
Of those white elders; but, escaping,
Left only Death's ironic scraping.
Now in its immortality, it plays
On the clear viol of her memory,
And makes a constant sacrement of praise.

('Peter Quince at the Clavier' by Wallace Stevens)

'Multiculturalism' faces Govt axing

The parliamentary secretary to the Immigration Minister says he does not think the term 'multiculturalism' is very meaningful and he is searching for a more appropriate word.

Andrew Robb says the term was discussed at a meeting with the Government-appointed Council of Multicultural Australia.

He says he would like to see a different word used in the Government's ethnic policy.

Mr Robb says the term is not particularly useful.

"Many people have suggested to me, including my multicultural council members, that the word multiculturalism means different things to different people," he said.

"It's unhelpful, it's not useful to describe the great success and importance in Australia of having an Australian family which respects the great diversity of those members of the family."

Beauty is momentary in the mind -
The fitful tracing of a portal;
But in the flesh it is immortal.
The body dies; the body's beauty lives.
So evenings die, in their green going,
A wave, interminably flowing.
So gardens die, their meek breath scenting
the cowl of winter, done repenting.
So maidens die, to the auroral
Celebration of a maiden's choral.
Susanna's music touched the bawdy strings
Of those white elders; but, escaping,
Left only Death's ironic scraping.
Now in its immortality, it plays
On the clear viol of her memory,
And makes a constant sacrement of praise.

('Peter Quince at the Clavier' by Wallace Stevens)

I don't like the term multiculturalism myself - due to the various meanings it holds for people.

I prefer to focus on what unifies us - not what divides us.  Clearly when people come here, they adopt some of our core cultural traits and values (or they should), while retaining elements of their original culture.

We need to accept that we're primarily a mono-culture, with the shared culture being what binds us together.  But we also need to communicate that we embrace people from other countries who are prepared to integrate with our culture.

That's my view anyway.

Purist multiculturalists believe no integration should occur necessarily.  If someone wants to come from the Sudan, live in a desert hut, practice primitive rituals etc...then they should be allowed to.  Equally, if someone wants to come here from Iran, and live an excluded life amongst fellow Islamics, and try to push the "values" of Islam onto the rest of society, then multiiculturalists believe this is also ok. 

We have freedom of speech etc, so no-one is going to hold a gun to someone's head and force them to integrate, but it's a matter of what's promoted.  So do we tell people there's no need to respect Aussie values?  ...or do we promote the requirement that core Aussie values are respected, and also the acceptance and respect immigrants should and will  receive if they make an effort to integrate with Aussie culture?

Where I live, muslims often wake up in a muslim family, get onto a muslim-exclusive bus, go to a muslim schools where varying interpretations of Islam are taught, back on the bus and back home again.  Mixing with non-muslims is discouraged, and in some cases prohibited.  That's not the recipe for a healthy society - that's a recipe for disharmony and chaos down the track.

I recall a documentary made by a muslim bloke in London.  He interviewed muslims of various persuasions in London, and 1 comment remains with me.  When asked why muslims immigrated to London, one response was:

"we're like explorers going into a jungle of savages.  We're here to teach them about civilisation".

The irony had me chuckling, but he was sincere in this belief.  That's rather unfortunate, and speaks of a sheltered life imho - one that has never considered integration with his adopted country.

CYBACAT 

Though I also believe that integration is an important policy objective, it is obvious to me that you and I come from different standpoints on this issue and that we don't mean the same thing by saying that. Respectfully, I think you over-emphasise the importance of integration and I don't think you're are alone in doing that. I think generally and increasingly now there is an over-emphasis on integration that has arisen in response to the community's anxieties about Muslims in particular. I should point out that in claiming that you over-emphasise the importance of integration, and the community at large that seems to increasingly have the same penchant, that does not mean, I am sure you will agree, that I or someone who shares my view, is a 'multicultural purist'. Moreover, such terms are really unhelpful in the mainstream of the debate. As if we need any more polarising. But, I digress. The point I am making is that there is a strong correlation between anxiety within the community in relation to the conduct and views of Muslims and the strengthening of opinion within the community that the policy objective of integration needs to be pursued more zealously ... that's probably too emotive a term ... lets just say more seriously.

However, obviously and I am sure you will agree, integration is not the only objective worth pursuing and the costs of of too great a pursuit of it need to stand as a warning to those advocating more of it and especially to its most emotional advocates. How far should we allow the energy that is our anxiety about some of the conduct and views of the Muslim portion of the population drive our domestic policies as to what is appropriate in the Australian context? The Muslim population is only a relatively small portion of the migrant population and multiplicity of cultural backgrounds that make up the Australian community. I see the demand merely for more integration as simply not aspirational enough. It is totally conflict averse and therefore pusillanimous. Australia does well not merely drawing people from a broad range of cultures but from the broad range of cultural intelligence and experience from a broad range of people.

In summation, Australia should be careful to not overplay the threat to society of clashing cultures within the domestic sphere through its domestic policies. That, in my opinion, does not make unjustified our collaborative offensive activities in Iraq etc. In my opinion, an international policy that is not averse to confrontation is also desireable, sound and justified. However, at the level of our own culture identity and experience we should be more aspirational, adventurous and alert than the pusillanimous protectionism of those who cling and cry for greater and greater integration would have us be. I don't think I am alone in complaining that I don't find the prospect of a 'monoculture', as you called it, at all inspiring or desireable.

Beauty is momentary in the mind -
The fitful tracing of a portal;
But in the flesh it is immortal.
The body dies; the body's beauty lives.
So evenings die, in their green going,
A wave, interminably flowing.
So gardens die, their meek breath scenting
the cowl of winter, done repenting.
So maidens die, to the auroral
Celebration of a maiden's choral.
Susanna's music touched the bawdy strings
Of those white elders; but, escaping,
Left only Death's ironic scraping.
Now in its immortality, it plays
On the clear viol of her memory,
And makes a constant sacrement of praise.

('Peter Quince at the Clavier' by Wallace Stevens)

Ristretto

Thanks for your thoughts.  I guess my post has to be understood in the context of my previous posts, and on the starting point I believe Australia is at presently.

Firstly, my personal preference is the embracement of many and varied cultures - I believe we have much to learn from them, they enrich our society and allow us to embrace the world more openly.

The starting point I believe we're at however, is one where total and unquestioning acceptance of foreign cultures being introduced to Australia is promoted.  And I see that as a perilous approach when we consider the experience of other western nations, particularly some European ones, whose kindness has come back to bite them hard. 

France, the Netherlands, even England, are experiencing cultural clashes within their homelands that are disrupting society and making it worse for everyone.  The utopian view that a mesh of cultures would seamlessly fit together and live in peaceful harmony...has been found wanting.

This I put down to fundamental and irreconcilable differences between some cultures and religions, and is a failure of governments to promote the idea of integration:

1.  At the immigration stage.  Promote the nation's values - make them clear.  If people don't accept those values, then they should consider moving to a nation more accomodating to their views.  This should go to the extent of a more detailed pledge of allegiance.

2.  Through the courts - our values must stand firm.  Pandering to extreme cultural difference is a recipe for disaster when it starts undermining the legal system.

3.  On an ongoing basis, the idea of accepting cultural differences, but promoting integration must be a constant theme.

I start with the premise that Australia is about as good a country as you'll find on Earth.  People generally get along with each other, we're easy going, we don't get too fanatical about anything except sport, we have a sense of humour no matter what the circumstances, our economy is booming, we have a beautiful country to live in...it just doesn't get much better.  I believe we need to take very careful steps whenever looking at major cultural changes that could endanger the country we live in, and should pay very careful example to the lessons of history - particularly recent history - and the immense damage that flawed and delinquent immigration policies have caused similar nations to ours.

Ah .. yeah, my name is Ristretto now. That was my username when I first signed up. I changed it Freshly Squeezed but for some reason, unknown to both Jordan and I, yesterday morning my username reverted back to Ristretto???

Thanks for your reply.

Beauty is momentary in the mind -
The fitful tracing of a portal;
But in the flesh it is immortal.
The body dies; the body's beauty lives.
So evenings die, in their green going,
A wave, interminably flowing.
So gardens die, their meek breath scenting
the cowl of winter, done repenting.
So maidens die, to the auroral
Celebration of a maiden's choral.
Susanna's music touched the bawdy strings
Of those white elders; but, escaping,
Left only Death's ironic scraping.
Now in its immortality, it plays
On the clear viol of her memory,
And makes a constant sacrement of praise.

('Peter Quince at the Clavier' by Wallace Stevens)