It does become tiresome listening to the relentless bleatings about the evils of Christianity, the attempt to link all paedophilia somehow to Catholic Priests, the attempt to link Christianity with major wars, or make out that religion is somehow the root of all evil.  This article offers a little more perspective...

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20807102-5007146,00.html  

Atheism - the real killer?

By Dinesh D'Souza

November 23, 2006 08:15am

I dunno. Maybe I'd be more impressed by this article if it came from a magazine that actually cared about this thing called "objectivity".

Razor's correct on the numbers. The wars of -ism -- Communism namely -- in the 20th and most bloody of all (so far) centuries outnumber Crusades or religious wars (so far) by a long shot.

The counterpoint to that, for those who just can't tolerate the notion of a violent non-religious entity, is to say things like Hitler was a Christian and invoked God in this or that writing. Mao was raised a Confucian... Pol Pot was a Buddhist... Whaddever. And then attribute their mass murdering sprees to their religion. Which is, to use a term I reject because of its constant use by lawyers -- disengenous.

But all the contention between which kills more -- atheism or religion -- overlooks that fundamental truth. Humans.

And with that reality, we come to the essence of WAR and why it has always and will always exist regardless of the lame Nancy-Boy ramblings of the Dalai Lama, Robert Redford or Yoko Ono. Or the self-important positions of the F(ilm) A(ctor's) G(uild), for that matter! It's a fundamental fact of life and a reality, that no matter how personally elevated some folks are; no matter how well able some folks are to discuss, debate, and modulate; no matter how repulsed some folks are by the 'anachronism' of (ICK) w-a-r; there are always others who will rise to the occasion, take up arms and smite the turtle-neck wearing (thanks always for that imagery, Jazz!), professorial, peacable, pontificating intellectuals.

After a spell on the top of their game, the once warring groups will have children who will have children who will have children. Somewhere along the line, those children will begin to question the wisdom of messy fighting, maiming and death. The worst damage they'll be able to conceive to human flesh are their own body piercings and tattoos. Can't we all just get along? Aren't there diplomatic answers to these disputes, guys?

And there, lurking just behind the now-highly civilized curtain, will be another group organizing behind one ethos or another, fully ready too smite the sons and daughters of the previous one time warriors. 

And so on.

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

The Dichotomy of the Isolated Quote.

"To be frank, the only civilization I admire is the one in which I was raised, the Greco-Roman Christian."

 Luis Bunuel, The Last Sigh: the Autobiography of Luis Bunuel 

 

Can't disagree with that one! 

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

And how about that part on sending his son to a CATHOLIC school!  That was back when California public schools really were the best in the nation, too. 

Ah, human beings.  They are nothing if not inconsistent. And thank heaven -- uh, god -- I mean, thank humanity for that!

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Interesting posts - I appreciate your thoughts in particular Susan.  It does eventually just boil down to humans, and human weaknesses (or sin if you like).  Envy, greed, anger being the main motivators for wars.

I guess my original post had a specific purpose.  We remain silent listening to the constant atheist bleating about all priests being paedophiles, religion being responsible for the wars and massacres throughout history, christians being a swarm of aggravating door knockers.  Atheists tend to wear these lies thick - like a warm protective coat that shields them from recognising the cold truth of the matter.

Occasionally I just like to call BS, because all of the above are patently, grossly untrue, and deliberate distortions that if repeated often enough unchallenged, come to be accepted as fact.

...but being an atheist doesn't mean you have to believe all these things or have to attact religion in any way; simply that you don't believe in god.

A lot of Christians wear lies about other religions "like a warm protective coat that shields them from recognizing the cold truth of the matter."  Trust me, not all Christians are pure when it comes to judging others and their beliefs.  I am a Christian and believe deeply in my faith, but I also make it a point to learn about others and their beliefs before I make a judgment.

As for religion being responsible for wars and massacres, ever hear of a little thing called the Crusades?  Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia:

The Crusades were a series of military campaigns of a religious character waged by Christians from 1095 - 1291 , usually sanctioned by the Pope ^[1] in the name of Christendom ,^[2] with the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the sacred " Holy Land " from Muslim rule while supporting the Byzantine Empire against the expansion of the Seljuq dynasty into Anatolia

That's almost 200 years of religion being the basis for war. 

The numbers of deaths from 200 years of intermittent Crusades, which eventually took on greater religious tones than were initially extant, are nowhere near the number of deaths caused by 20th century wars, Smeds.  This is pretty indisputable. Throw in a handful from the Inquisition and we're still nowhere near the hundreds of millions from Fascism or Communism. 

BTW, I'm reading a fun little book on the Crusades by Thomas F. Madden -- The New Concise History of the Crusades.  Is that the crusade book you read recently, Erwin?  Can't remember the title of the one you mentioned earlier this year. Here's a little article by Madden, an expert on the Middle Ages and the Crusades.

Couple of quotes from Madden: 

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Booth, are you a comedian in real life?  Fess up! 

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

So far, I'm loving it, Erwin!  Took a little break to muddle through this Iraqi Study Group Report, which is nothing but sucky reading material.  Glad I didn't pay for it.

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Smeds, the answer to the point you make about the Crusades is found in the questionable material you quoted. The Europeans were trying to protect themselves. And they managed to do that at least in the West so one wonders how they "lost" the Crusading Wars. More of a sitch where they lost their colony in the Lavant but won so much more. While the Moslems won but lose their way.

Erwin, speaking of the human passions which lead to justifying bad behavior with -isms, the whole "God and Country" quote is one of the classic dodges used by people who don't really believe in what they say so they can do what they want. Or get others to do what they what. Which is usually to slaughter their neighbors.

I used to be an athetist, but I lost faith in it. Now I don't believe in Nothing. heh, heh.

Right here, Frank.

Now it's dark.