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1. Monday, January 16, 2006 6:06 PM
wowBOBwow New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.


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New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.

By BRETT MARTEL, Associated Press Writer

NEW ORLEANS - Mayor Ray Nagin suggested Monday that Hurricanes Katrina and Rita and other storms were a sign that "God is mad at America" and at black communities, too, for tearing themselves apart with violence and political infighting. "Surely God is mad at America. He sent us hurricane after hurricane after hurricane, and it's destroyed and put stress on this country," Nagin, who is black, said as he and other city leaders marked Martin Luther King Day. "Surely he doesn't approve of us being in Iraq under false pretenses. But surely he is upset at black America also. We're not taking care of ourselves." Nagin also promised that New Orleans will be a "chocolate" city again. Many of the city's black neighborhoods were heavily damaged by Katrina. "It's time for us to come together. It's time for us to rebuild New Orleans — the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans," the mayor said. "This city will be a majority African American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn't be New Orleans." Nagin described an imaginary conversation with King, the late civil rights leader. "I said, `What is it going to take for us to move on and live your dream and make it a reality?' He said, `I don't think that we need to pay attention any more as much about other folks and racists on the other side.' He said, `The thing we need to focus on as a community — black folks I'm talking about — is ourselves.'" Nagin said he also asked: "Why is black-on-black crime such an issue? Why do our young men hate each other so much that they look their brother in the face and they will take a gun and kill him in cold blood?" The reply, Nagin said, was: "We as a people need to fix ourselves first." Nagin also said King would have been dismayed with black leaders who are "most of the time tearing each other down publicly for the delight of many." A day earlier, gunfire erupted at a parade to commemorate King's birthday. Three people were wounded in the daylight shooting amid a throng of mostly black spectators, but police said there were no immediate suspects or witnesses. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, Mayor Nagin, what the hell are you thinking? He is obviously a graduate of the world renowned Pat Robertson Foot-In-Mouth Institute of Tactless Ignorance. Now, I'm not a Christian, but I do believe there is something we call God, even if it's something as simple as the collective consiousness that we all share of Good and Evil, Right and Wrong. To taint this and all concepts of God by painting HE/SHE/IT as such a vengeful character is irresponsible and detrimental to the message of peace and love, which is the real meat of what nearly all religious worship seeks. God is not a soapbox.

 
2. Monday, January 16, 2006 8:17 PM
John Neff RE: New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.


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If the mayor of any predominantly white city stated that his city would be/remain/whatever, a "Vanilla" city, the media would be all over it like you know what on you know what! Nagin is a racist, and ought to be branded as such. And his failure to use the city school busses should result in a criminal probe and maybe charges. he completely let down his city, and now this! What a crock of you know what...

 
3. Monday, January 16, 2006 11:16 PM
JVSCant RE: New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.


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"Hmmm... I feel like I'm not quite unpopular enough already... What can I say or do to efficiently convince a ton of people that I'm a complete ass?"

  
 


 
4. Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:38 AM
John Neff RE: New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.


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Har de har, JVS, good one...

 
5. Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:41 AM
nuart RE: New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.


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Oh, don't tell me I'm actually learning Dutch by osmosis! 

 

A tempest in a teapot, CCC?

 

Que Bueno!

 

Susan 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
6. Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:30 PM
wowBOBwow RE: New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.


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Looks like Nagin will be on CNN tonight to clarify/apologize/damage control his statements. Many folks seem to be more offended by his "chocolate city" comments than his speaking for the vengeful intentions of God, but while stupid and unnecessarily exclusive, his calls for a chocolate town didn't upset me, as I understood what he meant despite his atrocious way of expressing himself. New Orleans was 67% African American before Katrina, and as we know the vast majority of poor folks without the means to evacuate themselves from New Orleans, were African American. With many of these people now scattered across the entire country, I believe that Nagin was reaching out to them, imploring them to come back, while at the same time looking for some cheap applause from the crowd which he did not get. It will be interesting to see what he has to say tonight.

 
7. Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:18 PM
jordan RE: New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.

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I have to agree with John above on this. If a conservative had said "vanilla city" he would've been grilled, BBQed, chewed up, swallowed and then vomitted out  within a night that nothing would've been left.

Dave, the chocolate comment bothered me more than the God one partly because the Bible is full of stories of a vengeful God so it's perfectly normal that a Christian (assuming he is) could say something like that even if I find the statement stupid.  


Jordan .

 
8. Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:47 PM
wowBOBwow RE: New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.


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Jordan, I do see yours and John's point, but I don't think anyone would really say that Nagin was being intentionally racist, although he was playing the race card in order to look like the champion of poor African Americans in New Orleans. The fact of the matter is, the history of our nation in regards to slavery and the oppression of African Americans is still a healing wound in this country. Consequently, mathematically equal or not, Caucasions have had to take a little extra care to not offend when speaking on this and related subjects, and this is something that we Caucasions understand and accept for the most part, in the interest of harmony and social progress. It is this inescapable disparity that I believe so highlights comments like Nagin's, but when looked at through historical context, the diligence that African Americans had to apply until very recently and to a lesser degree even today to be treated equally and with respect, does and will color their statements from time to time. I do not blame them or get angry for this, as I understand that they are even today dealing with the after effects of this dark time in our history. Simply put, their history is different than mine, and I know that this gives us a different perspective. If I believed that Nagin was being intentionally racist, I would be the first to denounce the chocolate town comment as a racist remark.

 
9. Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:26 AM
jordan RE: New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.

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Trent Lott was not being intentionally racist (or even at all racist, but was viewed as such) and he was crucified for praising what's his face a few years ago. That alone supports John and my opinion.

Of course the mayor wasn't being intentionally racist (most people's comments are not intentionally racist). But it still doesn't change the fact that his comment was racist (but the other way around) and even more racist than Lott's comments praising some old Senator at the end of his life on his birthday.

It's sorta like profiling. It's not okay to profile people boarding an airline or driving around, but it's okay to profile by race in college admissions. One is "racist" and one is supposedly not "racist" (or "sexist" or "whatever-ist").


Jordan .

 
10. Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:11 AM
Hyde RE: New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.


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As a resident of Louisiana, I am VERY happy to discuss this.

 Most people down here think Nader is NOT a good politician, and want to see him out of office.  The statements about God were not so bad when you consider the culture here.  When dealing with a southern, bible belt state, comments such as that are made all the time....Nader just chose an innappropriate place to say it.  Such comments should either be explained better, or reserved for the pulpit.

 Yes, I was bothered by the chocolate city statement.  Although, since Nader is black, I think his intention wasn't a bad one.  However, many of the individuals who moved out of New Orleans (both white and black) were responsible for the crime and violence of the city.  I don't know why he is hoping for them to return.  Perhaps he hopes to be re-elected.

The fact of the matter is, Nader is not good at his job.  This has been proven throughout this entire ordeal. 

What bothers me the most about this, is the same thing that bothers me about the whole 'racism' issue.  I believe it is wrong to be racist, however, when living in an area where most crime comes from a certain race...it is hard not to stereotype.  I have to force myself to remember that historically, the white man put the black man in a terrible situation, and that is why so many modern black individuals have turned to a life of crime.  I also have to remember all my black friends, and realize that it doesn't matter what color the skin is...it is how someone acts that counts. 

The reason I am bringing this up is because of something Nader said.  I actually applaud his statements about the African-American community needing to improve itself, and how they must take care of each other rather than resulting to black on black violence.

Basically, I am upset at the WAY Nader chose to express himself...but I am not that mad about all the things he was TRYING to say...but more the 'poor-taste' fashion in which he said them.  I still think he sucks though.

 
11. Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:33 PM
John Neff RE: New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.


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WowBOBWow, you as always express yourself very well. Nagin IS a racist, though. Many people do not believe that a black person can be a racist, because they were oppressed for so long, etc., but believe me, they can, and some are. In the early 70s I was the only white in an R&B studio rhythm section and a 13-piece touring Soul Revue. (They called me the "Blue Eyed Soul Brother"). I learned daily what being in the minority is like, and besides being a fabulous musical journey, it taught me life lessons that changed me then and still shape me today. Most of the musicians, Producers, etc. treated me very well and as an equal, but many press people, radio and tv people, venue owners/managers, motel/restaurant employees gave me a really hard time. We of course were in the 'black' areas of the various cities we played in. Some used to say right in front of me, to the Road Manager, "What do you have this white boy here for? Isn't (or ain't) there no (n-word) that can play guitar"? They repeatedly used the expletive in front of me when referring to one they felt should be there instead of me. I wouldn't get served in restaurants, all kinds of stuff. I used to discuss all this with the band and they thought I was crazy. They didn't think it was possible for a black person to be a racist because they only thought of white behavior as racist. Even when these incidents happened right in front of them, they'd say to the offender, "Hey, don't treat him like that, he can't help it if he's white". Then they'd turn to me and say not to let it bother me, that they were just actin' like that because I was white. Huh!!?!? But I learned to ignore it mostly. SO... I know what I speak of when I say Nagin is a racist. He just felt comfortable in an MLK day celebration and didn't expect us white folks would hear it. Hyde, you are totally correct in saying in so many words that he is not up to the job. He is incompetent. Um... I also didn't know that Ralph NADER had anything to do with Nawlins! Just teasin' ya there...

 
12. Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:28 PM
wowBOBwow RE: New Orleans Mayor Says God Mad at U.S.


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John, thank you for your kind words. I absolutley agree with you that ANY person of ANY color can be racist. I also feel that non-caucasion perpetrated racism is a much larger problem than the attention it receives, and this creates backlash that can actually perpetuate the still significant but dwindling problem of caucasion perpetrated racism. Nagin very well could be a racist, I do not know the man. My point was that his "chocolate town" comment in my opinion, was not incendiary or explicit enough to show him to be a racist, when you take into account our nations history of oppressing African Americans, especially in the south, where I am told by credible friends that it is still a persistant problem in relation to other parts of the country. His town was 67% African American before the Hurricane, and we all know that New Orleans lost alot of it's African American citizens in the subsequent evacuation and re-location. I know that Nagin realizes that the tendancy when rebuilding is to upgrade a bit, make things a little bit ritzier, so to speak. I am sure that he realizes that this may squeeze out economicallly some his cities poor, who are as we know disproportionately African American. I felt that in his statement we heard some of his naked frustration and willingness to fight against the prospect of losing an important and rarely championed segment of his cities people and culture. There is nothing wrong with his taking this prospect so personally, it's his city and he wants it back the way it was, and the fact that he himself is African American probably makes him identify with his displaced citizens on a little more personal level. African Americans, especially in the south, are drawn together in some ways by the shared experience of living in a society that is trying, but has not yet cleansed itself of old and racist ideologies. The fact is, this shared experience can make them seem "clicky" if you will, but again, when viewed through a detached and historical context, we can see that this is a largely unintentional and evolutionary condition of our past. It is this connection that to us modern and progressive Caucasions can at times seem tedious and exclusionary, but we must take into account our different experiences historically, and realize that these still healing wounds do still have a profound effect on our race relations in this country. As African Americans become more comfortable and less suspicious of Caucasion racism, we too need to come to terms with our own valid annoyance and frustration at being labeled as racist when it is without merit. The slate is not yet wiped clean, and we must all be patient. The only things that can heal these wounds fully are time and growth, and I do feel that we are making good, significant progress toward that goal. I would hate to see this goal setback by the desire to be even and done with it right now. It just doesn't work that way, but we are getting there and we will get there fully one day. I want to say also that in no way am I impressed by Nagin, his response to the Hurricane was as atrocious and pathetic as any. I feel that New Orleans would be better off with a more responsible and diligent mayor, as Nagin has failed his city miserably, as did the state and federal governments.

 

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