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| 1. Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:28 AM |
| jordan |
Hamas Wins? |
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Looks like Hamas "wins" the Palestinian election. There's not even a silver lining in this cloud when it comes to the recent "peace" prospects we were seeing. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060126/D8FCBVLOC.html So now we have Israel (and the US) who won't deal with a terrorist organization, and you have Hamas who has promised to not negotiate with Israel.
Jordan .
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| 2. Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:27 AM |
| nuart |
RE: Hamas Wins? |
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ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. This was a heartbreak to wake up to this morning and it all but insures a Netanyahu victory in the March Israeli elections. I can see the paragraph headings of future history books, marking key events explaining how we got to this point, whatever that point may be. Arafat dies. Mahmoud Abbas takes over the Palestinian Authority. Sharon removes settlers from the Gaza Strip turning it over to the Palestinians.
Sharon has massive stroke remaining in coma for long time. Iranian President says Israel should be wiped off the map. Iran publicly announces plans to put Israel into a coma longer than Sharon's. Hamas wins Palestinian election. That last sentence was a bitter pill to swallow. Looking at it now, makes me weak in the knees from sadness. One more step not in the direction of the Road Map but rather in the tired Never Missing an Opportunity to Miss an Opportunity. I'm afraid to even speculate on what comes next but it cannot be good for the short term. That is the most optimistic sentence I can conjure up at this moment. Tragic.
Susan
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
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| 3. Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:39 AM |
| nuart |
RE: Hamas Wins? |
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Just noticed your sentence, Jordan, that reads "Hamas has promised to not negotiate with Israel." That's putting it a little too gently as Hamas has openly stated since their beginnings, not unlike the iranian Ahmadinejad, that they are pledged to the destruction of the state of Israel. Here's the Islam Online view of the election. Note the location: "Occupied Jerusalem." ____________________________________________
Hamas Bombshell Win Rattles Israel
OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, January 26, 2006 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) – The stunning election victory of the Palestinian resistance group Hamas landed explosively on the scene of Israeli politics on Thursday, January 26, with acting Premier Ehud Olmert planning an emergency security meeting to discuss the ramifications of the apparent Hamas triumph in the general election.
The prospect of a Hamas-led government is the biggest challenge to face Olmert since assuming power after Prime Minister Ariel Sharon suffered a massive stroke on January 4, according to Agence France-Presse (AFP).
Olmert will later Thursday huddle together with top army and security officials as well as Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni to discuss the outcome of the Palestinian elections, a source in his office told AFP.
Mofaz has already convened a meeting with top security officials on Thursday morning to discuss the same issue, according to Israel's Ha'aretz daily.
Officials in Hamas and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's long-dominant Fatah concurred the resistance group appeared to have captured a large majority of seats in Wednesday's legislative elections, the first in a decade.
Acknowledging the defeat, Premier Ahmed Qorei and his cabinet ministers resigned Thursday.
Israel has warned that a Hamas victory would ensure the non-existent peace process remains frozen.
"Earthquake"
Amir Peretz, the chairman of Israel's opposition Labor party, said Thursday that his party does not consider Hamas to be a partner for peace negotiations, reported Ha'aretz.
"Hamas is not a partner because of its course of action and beliefs and it undermines stability in the Middle East."
He said his party has "no intention of allowing negotiations to take place, or let someone else force us to recognize an organization that declares it seeks to destroy Israel."
Peretz added that the US and European countries to clarify their stance in the wake of the new political reality.
Hawkish Likud MK Yuval Steinitz told Israel Radio Thursday that the government made a grave mistake by allowing the Palestinian parliamentary elections to take place with Hamas's participation, reported Ha'aretz.
He described the purported results as an "earthquake," and said they reflected Israel's "tragic failure" in its war against Hamas.
Steinitz, the chairman of the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, said Israel could have prevented Hamas's success by preventing the vote from taking place even at the price of a confrontation with the United States.
Yossi Beilin, a former justice minister and the chairman of the leftist Meretz party, also blamed Israel for strengthening Hamas.
"Israel has a large role in weakening the Palestinian Authority and strengthening Hamas," he told Israel Radio.
"The unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, not as a part of an agreement with Abu Mazen (Abbas), greatly strengthened the Hamas."
He, however, said the election results still provided a chance for an agreement with moderate Palestinians, said the Israeli daily.
Beilin called on Olmert to immediately launch peace talks with Abbas.
"Rock and a Hard Place"
Israeli media coverage of the Palestinian election results went deeper, in a bid to forecast expected implications on Israel's own general election, slated for March 28.
"Olmert is now facing a real crisis, as he has the option of a bad choice or an even worse one," Ha'aretz said in a front-page analysis on Thursday.
"If he shows signs of moderation or softening toward Hamas following its victory in the Palestinian parliamentary elections, his political rival, Likud Chairman Benjamin Netanyahu, would base his party's election campaign on the claim that the Gaza pullout was a reward for Hamas," he maintained.
"On the other hand, if he threatens to sever ties with the Palestinians, boycott them, further delay funds owed to them or impose any other punishment, Olmert will find himself facing increasing international pressure to honor the legitimate, democratic election results, and to prevent the collapse of the Palestinian Authority's social and public services."
In its analysis, the Israeli daily predicted that in the coming days Olmert will try to coordinate with the US to "alleviate international pressure, and at the same time demonstrate a tough domestic stand in order to avoid losing votes to Netanyahu."
Ha'aretz said Hamas's victory strengthens Kadima's stands because it rules out any possibility of permanent agreement talks.
It added that the new development also adds power to Kadima's "no partner" theory, which states that the only alternative available to Israel is to unilaterally determine the border. __________________________________________________ And this, the Hamas Charter: The Martyr's Oath, just to get a sense of how the majority of Palestinians feel in order to elect this organization. __________________________________________________
Hamas's charter: The martyrs' oath THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 5, 2006
"Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious...The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised...
The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the wings of Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine. The Muslim Brotherhood Movement is a universal organization which constitutes the largest Islamic movement in modern times...
It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned...
The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kassam and his brethren the fighters, members of Muslim Brotherhood. It goes on to reach out and become one with another chain that includes the struggle of the Palestinians and Muslim Brotherhood in the 1948 war and the Jihad operations of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1968 and after...
The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: 'The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him...' Resisting and quelling the enemy become the individual duty of every Muslim, male or female. A woman can go out to fight the enemy without her husband's permission, and so does the slave: without his master's permission...
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with...
The day The Palestinian Liberation Organization adopts Islam as its way of life, we will become its soldiers, and fuel for its fire that will burn the enemies...
The Zionist invasion is a vicious invasion... It relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups. All these organizations, whether secret or open, work in the interest of Zionism and according to its instructions...
We should not forget to remind every Muslim that when the Jews conquered the Holy City in 1967, they stood on the threshold of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and proclaimed that 'Mohammed is dead, and his descendants are all women.'
Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Muslim people. 'May the cowards never sleep.'"
________________________________________________ Call me Cassandra, but I'm not liking this one little bit.
Susan
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
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| 4. Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:40 AM |
| R_Flagg |
RE: Hamas Wins? |
Member Since 1/8/2006 Posts:416
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I haven't been following this situation very close, but I almost choked on my captain crunch when I saw the headlines stating that Hamas wins seats in a landslide! So what do you suppose the reason is behind the strong public support and votes for an extreme terrorist group that will now lead the Palestinian Authority? The news interviewed some palestinians who said they want better healthcare for their children. Really???????
It seemed like the Palestinians were making progress towards regaining land.  -
R_Flagg
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| 5. Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:07 PM |
| jordan |
RE: Hamas Wins? |
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The news interviewed some palestinians who said they want better healthcare for their children. Really???????
We all know it's not about "health care." The Palestinians aren't to the point in their govt or society to be demanding "health care." They have an economy to improve and homes to build first. Heatlh care is far from the real reason. It seemed like the Palestinians were making progress towards regaining land. And I think this election proves that the issue between Palesinians and Israel has less to do with land, and Israel just giving land back is not going to fix the ultimate problem which is more along the lines of racial and religous - not who owns what land. I know many think it's about the land and the issue is always framed that way, but I think this election proves that it's not really about land, but something bigger.
Jordan .
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| 6. Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:43 PM |
| nuart |
RE: Hamas Wins? |
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Yeah, it's about that Palestinian "I have a dream" philosophy. Very simple when it is reduced to its basics. Israel = gone. The one state solution. Susan
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
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| 7. Friday, January 27, 2006 8:05 AM |
| jordan |
RE: Hamas Wins? |
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Maybe, just maybe there is a silver lining to this after all....I never even considered the following, and not sure if I believe this guy is right or wrong just yet....
Hamas Without Veils No more hiding behind the PA. By Emanuele Ottolenghi
Contrary to initial responses, Hamas’s projected victory in the Palestinian parliamentary elections is a positive development. Not, as its apologists claim, because the proximity of power will favor a process of cooptation into parliamentary politics, and therefore strengthen the pragmatic wing of Hamas. There is no pragmatic wing in Hamas, and all differences within the movement — the armed wing and the political wing, Palestine Hamas and Hamas in Syria — are arguably tactical differences. No, the reason is, as Vladimir Ilich Lenin would put it, "worse is better."
Hamas’s favored outcome was not victory, but a strong showing that would leave Hamas with the best of both worlds: It would remain in opposition (or would be invited to join a coalition as a junior partner) but would impose severe limitations on the Fatah-led government on how to manage its relations with Israel. Hamas could thus claim to reject Oslo, decline to recognize the Palestinian Authority and its commitments under the Oslo accords and the roadmap, and continue to use its rising political clout and its military strength to sabotage any effort to revive the moribund peace process.
What victory does to Hamas is to put the movement into an impossible position. As preliminary reports emerge, Hamas has already asked Fatah to form a coalition and got a negative response. Prime Minister Abu Ala has resigned with his cabinet, and president Abu Mazen will now appoint Hamas to form the next government. From the shadows of ambiguity, where Hamas could afford — thanks to the moral and intellectual hypocrisy of those in the Western world who dismissed its incendiary rhetoric as tactics — to have the cake and eat it too. Now, no more. Had they won 30-35 percent of the seats, they could have stayed out of power but put enormous limits on the Palestinian Authority’s room to maneuver. By winning, they have to govern, which means they have to tell the world, very soon, a number of things.
They will have to show their true face now: No more masks, no more veils, no more double-speak. If the cooptation theory — favored by the International Crisis Group and by the former British MI-6 turned talking head, Alistair Crooke — were true, this is the time for Hamas to show what hides behind its veil.
As the government of the Palestinian Authority, now they will have to say whether they accept the roadmap.
They will have to take control over security and decide whether they use it to uphold the roadmap or to wage war.
There will be no excuses or ambiguities when Hamas fires rockets on Israel and launches suicide attacks against civilian targets. Until Tuesday, the PA could hide behind the excuse that they were not directly responsible and they could not rein in the "militants." Now the "militants" are the militia of the ruling party. They are one and the same with the Palestinian Authority. If they bomb Israel from Gaza — not under occupation anymore, and is therefore, technically, part of the Palestinian state the PLO proclaimed in Algiers in 1988, but never bothered to take responsibility for — that is an act of war, which can be responded to in kind, under the full cover of the internationally recognized right of self-defense. No more excuses that the Palestinians live under occupation, that the PA is too weak to disarm Hamas, that violence is not the policy of the PA. Hamas and the PA will be the same: What Hamas does is what the PA will stand for.
Continuing to pursue a violent path will automatically switch off all international aid. Perhaps Hamas intends to offset the resulting loss of revenue by hosting Holocaust-denial conferences in Gaza and terrorist training camps in Rafah, but it will still have to explain to the Palestinian public why it’s better to renounce public aid to wage war.
Meanwhile, Hamas will have to confront the Egyptians (and the Jordanians) and tell them what the PA under Hamas now stands for. And Egypt and Jordan will have to change course, accordingly. Egypt has an increased military presence along the Gaza border and several officers in Gaza to help "stabilize" the security situation — which so far has meant keeping the flames low enough not to bother Egypt but high enough not to let Israel off the hook completely. What will Egypt do now? Cooperate with Hamas in Gaza while it dreads Hamas’ twin, the Muslim Brotherhood, at home? Will it act more decisively to stop the ever growing flow of illegal weapons being smuggled into Gaza from the Sinai, or turn a blind eye even as the increased militancy in Gaza might embolden the Brotherhood in Egypt? No more ambiguity for Egypt either.
The Arab world will also be watching wearily. Hamas now will have to show to the Arab world that an Islamic party that wins a democratic election — everyone’s nightmarish scenario — is not as bad as it seems. For now, the Palestinians have chosen an Islamic option over a secular one. Let them have it. Let them enjoy life under Sharia. It is their choice — that is what self-determination is about — and we must respect it. After all, the spectacle of an Arab government that is defeated in a fair and free election, and that as a consequence resigns (resigns!), has no precedent in the Arab world. This is good news. Let’s have some more and put Hamas to the test of democracy: this experience will tell us if Islamists can embark on a road that leads to the Turkish model or whether Palestine will become a Sunni Iran. If democracy succeeds under Hamas’s leadership, there is a legitimate government in power that enjoys support and popularity in Palestine and might be more honest and more competent than its predecessor — not a difficult task, given the ineptitude of Fatah. Otherwise, we can tell once and for all that co-optation is not the way to moderation, but a recipe is self-defeating appeasement.
Hamas hoped that a narrow Fatah victory would allow Hamas to enter government in junior positions while pursuing violence against Israel — much like Hezbollah in Lebanon. Their victory forces them to make a choice now, and the international community, while respecting the democratic verdict of a fundamentally fair electoral process, must hold them to account. The issue is not whether Europe, the U.S., or Israel should talk to Hamas. The issue is whether there is anything to talk about with Hamas, and the burden of proof is on Hamas to demonstrate they are capable of becoming interlocutors. If Hamas meets the true test, namely accepting the road map, renouncing violence, disarming its own terror network, recognizing Israel and embracing the two-state solution, then no obstacle should remain for a dialogue with Hamas. Otherwise, they can taste Israeli steel, courtesy of the U.S. and the full backing of the EU of Israel’s right to defend itself.
Don’t hold your breath though.
In commenting on this electoral upheaval, Jerusalem Post’s editor David Horovitz has written
Some may seek comfort in the belief that an ascent to government could prompt a greater sense of responsibility, a move to moderation. But Hamas's intolerance is based on a perceived religious imperative. No believing Muslim, in the Hamas conception, can be reconciled to Jewish sovereignty in the Middle East. To deny that, for Hamas, is blasphemy. And that is the ideology to which the Palestinian people, for whatever reason and by their own free hand, have just tied their fate. That is the guiding ideology with which Israel and the West will now have to grapple.
The appeasers and the apologists are already cuing up to argue that Hamas has already embarked on the road to realism. But unless Hamas reneges on its ideology and endorses a new course, then Israel’s claim that there is no Palestinian partner is vindicated. The resulting Israeli policy of unilateralism is vindicated. Israel’s argument that the Palestinians do not want peace is vindicated. Israel’s argument that Islamists’ nuances and differences of opinion are just tactical, not strategic, is also vindicated. And the prospects of a Palestinian state will become even more remote.
The uniform message that the world gives Hamas should thus be: Take off your veil, and expose your true face for the entire world to see in the naked and transparent light of democracy.
— Emanuele Ottolenghi teaches Israel studies at Oxford University.
Jordan .
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| 8. Friday, January 27, 2006 7:03 PM |
| nuart |
RE: Hamas Wins? |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:7632
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Sigh. The day after. I guess the choices weren't all that great when you think about it.   FATAH TERRORIST OR HAMAS TERRORIST? Is there anything to the headgear's obscuring of the vision that makes for a likewise philosophical obscuring of vision or am reading to much into it? 
Susan
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
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