The thread about Ed wanting to kill Nadine made me think of something we've talked sometimes, at least we've discussed a lot of specific cases, like the ones I mention in that thread... I'm talking about the subtext, what we're not told and we must figure out, what some details, gestures, pieces of dialogue tell us about the hidden feelings and behaviors of the characters or even more global things about the plot... All this, of course, with no way to prove if we're right or wrong, because it's all based in what you believe lies beyond the characters and storylines, not having any evidence... And it doesn't matter if the writers thought about it or not, it's the kind of thing that goes beyond the borders of the script and what we see on-screen... I think BOB1 (where is he, BTW?) called it once "metaphysical".

I mentioned some examples in the Big Ed thread, but here I want to talk about 2 cases, more interesting and intriguing IMO. First is the theory about how much was Leland to blame about what happened to Laura... In one side we have the loving innocent father possessed by an evil entity, BOB, guilty of everything and in the other Leland being the incestuous, vicious daddy and BOB the representation of the "evil that men do". I've always defended Leland, who is I believe the greater victim in, as Judge Sternwood put it, that enduring drama... I have no reasons to not believe what he says in ep.16 just before dying and BTW, is in that moment when we can say for the first time in the series and film that we see Leland being 100 % Leland. One of the problems of wanting to blame Leland is that we must consider that BOB is there, so we're never sure which actions are Leland's or BOB's... On the other hand someone mentioned once that the desire for Laura was Leland's, but that it was hidden in a subconscious level and that what BOB did was to awake it, to "feed" on that... And I don't dislike that idea... Conclusion, deciding if Leland is guilty or not depends on the subtext, how possession works, when BOB is there, what are Leland's true feelings for Laura, etc.

I made a thread once about the other case, but I don't remember if the theory was well received or not... I still agree with myself, but of course as you'll see I have no evidence... Simply put it I believe that Ben's sexual ideal is Audrey... Don't get me wrong, Ben has no incestuous desires for his daughter, what I mean is that if Audrey wasn't his daughter I see Ben falling madly in love with her, or at least desiring her sexually... I base this thought in many little things, but the most important one was the character of Louise Dombrowski; we don't know who she is, a cousin, a baby sitter, but I see clear sexual undertones in that scene with her and the Horne Bros. (call me dirty). The striking similarity between Louise and Audrey made me think in that; but as I say it's just an impression, something that I think is in the subtext, like if Ben dressed his daughter unconsciously like the girl that "made him a man", or that he fell in love with Sylvia because she looked like Louise and that's why Audrey looks like her... I don't know... There are other details, we know Ben feels lust for Audrey's body in OEJ and in the Bookhouse scene he touches her shoulder and removes his hand feeling a little embarrassed. Why? Probably because he suspects she has seen something connected to him in OEJ, but yet again call me dirty I see more in that scene... That kind of things disturb me...

Well, I think I've written enought, I'll try to think in more examples and I'd love to read others... Now if you excuse me I really have to ur...I mean, I've just found a TP board in spanish and I still can't believe it, I'm going to check it out... This place is still (and will always be) the best though....

I like your thoughts on Audrey and Louise Dombowski (god, how do you spell that???) I never thought of that, although she always reminded me of Audrey. There are something incestious at work between Ben and Audrey. I´ve always felt that when you think of the OEJ scene and the fact that Ben would sleep with one of Audreys school mates. That fact just made me sick...

Ditte 

There is a definite subtext of Freudian incest in the show.  If Jerry hadn't interrupted Ben with the S-N-A-G, we may have had another father/daughter rape.  What if Donna had ventured undercover into OEJ, and run into the same situation? Oh, Daddy...  I also thought it odd that DL and Jen decided she should write Laura Palmer's scandalous memoirs. 

There are many subtexts, that's for sure. But all the subtexts I pick up on are so imbedded into my idea of how the show works, that it's hard to sit here and think "ok, what conclusions did I draw without actually knowing for sure that they were told to me in the show?" etc.

They have become an integrated part into my grand memory of what all happens in the show, that there is no way I could call up specifically which ones were not "proven" without watching each and ever episode again and telling you which subtexts I picked up on as I go.

(I'd like to note that the above statement is not a bad idea. I love having a good reason to go back and watch the whole series all over again)
So, none of the subtexts I noticed can be mentioned off the top of my head, but I'll chime in whenever I rediscover one. And I hope to hear others

Ditte: well, I'm in love with a board member

I too noticed the Louise/Audrey thing, I just couldn't put it as well as Gordon.

 In terms of Leland's innocence...one thing that always bothered me was how he says at the end of FWWM, sounding very much like Leland as opposed to BOB, "I thought you knew it was me". I can't see how that fits with his innocence, even though it is the story I choose to beleive.

Great topic idea, Gordon...The subtext in any given scene is what makes Twin Peaks such an amazing show and put it way ahead of its time and helped pave the way for how television has evolved since its departure. I have been wanting to start watching Twin Peaks again but am 1) holding off buying a new VCR (I know, they are mega-cheap now) and 2) holding out for the season 2 DVDs...Anyway, whenever I am watching the show, I will be watching a particular scene and in the back of my head, I work out what is really happening in the scene. It usually breaks down like this...Say Person A and Person B are in the scene...Both persons are talking but either one or both are not saying everything they mean or are flat out lying, then you have whatever ulterior motives are in the background and if the scenes involve the overall mythology of the show you have your larger grand-scale theories to filter into your interpretation as well. Some of the reasons why watching Twin peaks is so enjoyable...hope that made some sense...that is all.

I know I've been blabbering on alot about this alot lately, but TP is becoming more and more of a spiritual (as opposed to religious or supernatural) show as I watch it.  The elements of good versus evil, and a desire to know other worlds are obvious, but the value the show places on a general moral code: ie. the respect for nature and its wonders, the importance of love, honesty and forgiveness- karmic retribution and accepting how little man knows about the meaning of it all- seems increasingly more meaningful (in a metaphysical way) to me. 

COOPER
I've done a lot of thinking. And I've started to focus out
beyond the end of the board. On a bigger game.

HARDY
(losing patience)
What 'game'?

COOPER
The sound wind makes through the pines. The sentience
of animals. The last thought of a homeless man before he
takes a night's sleep. What we fear in the dark. And
what's beyond the dark.

HARDY
What the hell are you talking about?

COOPER
I'm talking about seeing beyond fear, Roger. About
looking at the world with love.

That's how I watch TP too, smokey, specially now that I'm lost about how many times I've seen it... An example I just thought right now is the look in Ben's face when he asks Catherine where he keeps the 2nd book; we find out later that he's really conspiring against Catherine with Josie and that's why the book is gone when Catherine checks her drawer: Ben told Josie... But this whole plot twist is already there in Ben's face.

I use to pay attention a lot to the characters faces; it's very enjoyable for example to watch in the Pilot the people's reactions about Laura's murder in their faces, how Audrey smiles, how Bobby is more surprised that they think he killed her... The look in Coop's face when Earle is first mentioned (way back before he appears) also tells us how is that Earle already. And what about those wonderful Coop and Ben scenes when Audrey is rescued and while one knows the other knows that he knows; the look in Coop's face when Ben hugs him, priceless... How Hawk looks Coop with admiration eyes in the rocks and bottles scene... Ben's face when he looks Laura's corpse, or Harry's witnessing Coop and Annie falling in love when he just has lost his. There are so many examples...

All those are fantastic examples, Gordon...you are establishing an argument for me to start watching the show again...and like you I couldn't tell you how many times I have watched all 30 episodes...it has to be around 20 times I would guesstimate...The exchanges between Ben and Cooper all through the Audrey kidnapping and subsequent rescue are some of my favorite moments of subtext. Every time I watch those episodes I say out loud. "Ben, Cooper really doesn't  like you." And what about Ben asks Cooper if there is something beyond professional concern when Cooper first inquires about Audrey not being around. He makes that comment about buckshot and jalopies...but all it was really was a breif moment (and the only one in that whole subplot) for Ben to be self-righteous and magnanimous to Cooper, but all that quickly disappear once the kidnapping was revealed to both men. I also like the look on Ben's face when he agrees to do business with Jean Renault in order to get his daughter back.    

I can't belive how people can so easily say "Leland is innocent," or "Leland is not innocent," or "He was possessed by BOB," or "There's is no BOB." Let me remind you that irony is a huge thing in the show.

"Would you rather belive that father would kill and rape his own daughter." is a line that the belivers often use. But you can go to the another direction from that as well, yes, some people would rather belive to something that doesn't exist than admit that one could do such things, that they are responsible, and that they could have such desires towards their own daughter. I mean, how do you think such ideas as Satan were invented? People do horrible things and they can't belive how easily it happens so they start blaiming super natural forces. All the BOB stuff could be understood as symbolic to the things that are happening in Leland's and Cooper's mind. Then again, there's lots of "facts" to back up that BOB does exists in the series (like the existence of blue rose cases).

One another funny thing is the way Cooper works. It seems like all the Tibet stuff is working but does it? Pittsburgh might have done some serious damage to him, he might have loose his touch with reality.

I love the way Ben says "Aaaaagent Cooper" in one of those scenes... And his final "No, thank you". Actually, is there anything more amazing in this world that the way Richard Beymer says his lines?

Related to that there are a couple or very brief Ben moments that show how much that man loves his daughter. When Audrey asks him to work at Horne's, after their conversation, she's leaving, he gets a phone call and there's that wonderful and short smile in his face before speaking to Leo or Hank, I don't remember... And in those Coop-Ben scenes he's more worried that Coop could have find anything against him, saying "Too bad" or something similar and feeling relieved when he hears about Blackie's death and Renault's escape. But this until he hears that Audrey is recovering from a drug overdose. In that moment Ben is devastated and the way this is shown and performed by Beymer is, yet again, wonderful....

And Beymer...really, how can you not love Ben? He's played so cunningly!

Ahhh...the Ben and Coop scenes...BRILLIANT!! I love the scene when Coop meets Ben at the Northern, with the money in tact, and Ben goes to hug Dale...the look on Coop's face is priceless. Pure controlled disdain.  And that scene with Hardy...one of my very favorites. (That's why part of it is my signature :) ). One thing that I have always loved about Twin Peaks is the growing friendship between Harry and Dale as the series progresses---Coop's methods are out there, but Harry will back him up 100%. That Bookhouse Boys scene gets me every time, as well as the hug at the Bookhouse, Harry: "I don't understand...there's a whole lot I don't understand...." Coop: "We're all like that." And in the last episode, Harry would have waited indefinitely for Coop to come back from disappearing through those curtains.