I had a conversation on this board not too long ago, about the fact that the dream sequence in the show was edited from the European ending, and doesn't anyone wish that the version of the dream sequence was the entire European ending, since Cooper recounts almost the entire ending when he discusses his dream in episode 3.

Well, the new gold box dvd is very clear about answering my questions.  I have been watching the extras, and they explain everything about it. 

What I want to know is something different now....but derivative of the first conversation. 

1.  We know that the European ending was shot with only the intention of having that alternate ending to stick on the end of the pilot in case the series wasn't picked up.

2.  We also know that in Episode 2....David and Mark decided to use MOMENTS from the European ending in a dream sequence experienced by Cooper. 

What I am curious about is...do you feel the dream cooper has is the same or ROUGHLY the same thing as the European ending...since he recounts it later...and we the viewers are only seeing PARTS of it?  (I find this interesting because of cooper talking about how in his dream MIKE shoots Bob when Bob vows to kill again (which was in the European ending)  HOWEVER, he in the European ending, Cooper tells the one armed man "You were in an elevator at the hospital this afternoon"...when in fact, that wouldn't fit in episode 2, since HAWK saw the one armed man in the elevator THE PREVIOUS DAY....obviously meaning that the line "you were in an elevator here this afternoon" was created for the european-pilot ending, (making relations to the OAMs presence in the elevator with Cooper and Harry during the pilot)

 I hope no one minds me probing for comments on this.  I just think this little extra 10 minutes of footage is so cool...I could have many conversations on it.   

Watching it again last week, I came to the conclusion that narratively Cooper did have the full dream in the episode version, and we only saw parts of it.  There are too many references that don't make sense otherwise. For instance, he tells Harry and Lucy they were both in the dream, and I don't think he's just trying to make them feel included...

So did he dream the (incorrect) solution to the letters-under-the-fingernails puzzle that is given in the extended pilot ending?

1. No
2. The extended ending isn't cannon, so any relationship it has to the stuff in the actual show we have to regard as coincidental and reject in favor of stuff we actually see and hear in the series proper.

So did he dream the (incorrect) solution to the letters-under-the-fingernails puzzle that is given in the extended pilot ending?

1. No
2. The extended ending isn't cannon, so any relationship it has to the stuff in the actual show we have to regard as coincidental and reject in favor of stuff we actually see and hear in the series proper.

Well said.

I actually went back to watch the special features on the 'special edition season 1' a while ago and in an interview with Mark Frost he actually said that the 'European ending' was an idea that was put on the end of the pilot under contractual obligation. I seem to recall it had something to do with the European distributors wanted a closed ending or something?

I haven't seen the 'European' ending properly yet. Australians still waiting for R4 release. Not happy!

Um. The One Armed Man is in the elevator with Cooper and Truman in the pilot and gets off on the floor where Jacoby sees them and runs down to catch them when they are going to the morgue.   

gets off on the floor where Jacoby sees them and runs down to catch them

Damn those onan-armed men.

So did he dream the (incorrect) solution to the letters-under-the-fingernails puzzle that is given in the extended pilot ending?

1. No
2. The extended ending isn't cannon, so any relationship it has to the stuff in the actual show we have to regard as coincidental and reject in favor of stuff we actually see and hear in the series proper.

Well said.

I actually went back to watch the special features on the 'special edition season 1' a while ago and in an interview with Mark Frost he actually said that the 'European ending' was an idea that was put on the end of the pilot under contractual obligation. I seem to recall it had something to do with the European distributors wanted a closed ending or something?

I haven't seen the 'European' ending properly yet. Australians still waiting for R4 release. Not happy!

...not so well said....Did you read my full original post?....because I mentioned how the new dvd extras tell about how the euro-end was put in to have an ending in case the series wasn't picked up.  I mentioned that in my original post!  That WAS the contract obligation.....and ROBERT isn't the incorrect spelling, because that is what it turns out to be.  HOWEVER, I am not saying the European ending IS the completed ending to episode 2....I am merely asking if Cooper perhaps had that dream, or if it isn't to be consider at all.  Taking into account what he says.....it is confusing, and interesting at the same time.  

I THINK IT IS BOTH!  They made the European ending, and THEN they decided to use some of it at the end of episode 2...and modeled what Coopers recounts as a dream really was AFTER the Euro-ending...but didn't include all input.  That is why when Cooper recounts the dream later on....he only recounts "Lucy...you were there, harry...so were you.  Sarah palmer had a vision of her killer, Deputy Hawk sketched his image....I got a call from a one armed man named mike...the killers name was bob.  Mike couldn't stand the killing aymore so he cut off his arm....bob vowed to kill again...so mike shot him"  BUT the writers chose to exclude the spelling of the name Robert, and the other material  that obviously showed it was meant to go with the Euro-ending to the pilot. 
 

...not so well said....Did you read my full original post?....because I mentioned how the new dvd extras tell about how the euro-end was put in to have an ending in case the series wasn't picked up.  I mentioned that in my original post!  That WAS the contract obligation.....and ROBERT isn't the incorrect spelling, because that is what it turns out to be.  HOWEVER, I am not saying the European ending IS the completed ending to episode 2....I am merely asking if Cooper perhaps had that dream, or if it isn't to be consider at all.  Taking into account what he says.....it is confusing, and interesting at the same time.  

 Hyde, I wonder why you even bother asking questions like this.  It is clear you are only interested in hearing opinions that coincide with your own.  If YOU read MY post thoroughly, you would see that I am saying that we should NOT consider the "Euro" ending to be the full dream sequence.  I am answering your question.  Maybe you missed that because it isnt what you wanted to hear.

Also, as I have said before (and you have apparently missed before) the solution to the fingernail letters in the extended ending is ROBERT, whereas in episode 16, Cooper discovers that the letters were spelling ROBERTSON.  My point, then, was that for Cooper to have dreamed that BOB told him the solution was ROBERT would be wrong.  ROBERT and ROBERTSON are not the same thing.

By the way, the information about when the "Euro" ending was made and why is not news.  Yes, it came out on the Gold Edition extras, but it has been a known fact in the TP fan universe for a very, very long time.  TP.org's FAQ has had that information listed for at least the past 10 years and, I would venture, even longer.  Google "Twin Peaks" and "European Ending" and you'll see what I mean.

...not so well said....Did you read my full original post?....because I mentioned how the new dvd extras tell about how the euro-end was put in to have an ending in case the series wasn't picked up. I mentioned that in my original post! That WAS the contract obligation.....and ROBERT isn't the incorrect spelling, because that is what it turns out to be. HOWEVER, I am not saying the European ending IS the completed ending to episode 2....I am merely asking if Cooper perhaps had that dream, or if it isn't to be consider at all. Taking into account what he says.....it is confusing, and interesting at the same time.

Hyde, I wonder why you even bother asking questions like this. It is clear you are only interested in hearing opinions that coincide with your own. If YOU read MY post thoroughly, you would see that I am saying that we should NOT consider the "Euro" ending to be the full dream sequence. I am answering your question. Maybe you missed that because it isnt what you wanted to hear.

Funny, I just re-read my post and came to the same conclusion. 

...not so well said....Did you read my full original post?....because I mentioned how the new dvd extras tell about how the euro-end was put in to have an ending in case the series wasn't picked up.  I mentioned that in my original post!  That WAS the contract obligation.....and ROBERT isn't the incorrect spelling, because that is what it turns out to be.  HOWEVER, I am not saying the European ending IS the completed ending to episode 2....I am merely asking if Cooper perhaps had that dream, or if it isn't to be consider at all.  Taking into account what he says.....it is confusing, and interesting at the same time.  

 Hyde, I wonder why you even bother asking questions like this.  It is clear you are only interested in hearing opinions that coincide with your own.  If YOU read MY post thoroughly, you would see that I am saying that we should NOT consider the "Euro" ending to be the full dream sequence.  I am answering your question.  Maybe you missed that because it isnt what you wanted to hear.

Also, as I have said before (and you have apparently missed before) the solution to the fingernail letters in the extended ending is ROBERT, whereas in episode 16, Cooper discovers that the letters were spelling ROBERTSON.  My point, then, was that for Cooper to have dreamed that BOB told him the solution was ROBERT would be wrong.  ROBERT and ROBERTSON are not the same thing.

By the way, the information about when the "Euro" ending was made and why is not news.  Yes, it came out on the Gold Edition extras, but it has been a known fact in the TP fan universe for a very, very long time.  TP.org's FAQ has had that information listed for at least the past 10 years and, I would venture, even longer.  Google "Twin Peaks" and "European Ending" and you'll see what I mean.

Firstly, I posted this and allowed myself a response because this is a DISCUSSION board.  So, I am DISCUSSING my opinions on the issue I brought up.  It seems to me YOU are having a problem with MY feelings on the matter, when we all joined this board to have a good conversation.  What is your problem.

As far as another retort on the matter....take a look at these points. 

As far as the letters saying Robertson...Please excuse my poor spelling...but The exact lines are:

Leland: This man. I know him.

COOPER
How?

LELAND
When I was a boy my Grandfather had a summer house
up at Pearl Lakes, we went there every year -

COOPER
You knew him there.

LELAND
Yes. Now, I know he wasn't a Chalbert. They were our
neighbors on one side. On the other side was a vacant
lot, then there was a white house. That's where he lived.

COOPER
Can you remember a name?

LELAND
I think ... I think it was Robertson.

Cooper looks at the letters on the blackboard, then back at Leland.

COOPER
Robertson, Robert...R.O.B.T. That's what the letters are going to spell,
Hawk, get up to Pearl Lakes, find out who was in that
other house.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Then is episode 16, Dale says: 

"Mike said the people Bob inhabited were his children....Robertson..."Son OF Robert".

 Dale says Son OF and ROBERT....and

If the people Bob inhabits are his children, then isn't LELAND a SON OF "ROBERT"?  THEREFORE "ROBERT" could very well be the name? 

That is what Dale is saying here...and therefore, you CAN say Robert.  But this is just different ways of considering things.....I wanted to talk and have fun with it....and my reply was just to come back with another point.  HOWEVER, I only wanted an interesting conversation on the matter.  IF I crossed some kind of line and was overly aggressive, I am very sorry. You were definatly very rude in your last post though...and I thought you would enjoy my retort, and it would prompt you to write another retort....not an insult.  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ALso.... I KNOW the information on the pilot ending isn't necessarily new....but I was confused by something Al Strobel told me...which started me wondering about the facts.  The new dvd pretty much confirmed it beyond a doubt though...and I had expressed this point in an earlier conversation....but I didn't think it was that important to mention here, where I was just talking about IF the dream was the same or not.  Some people have said it could be the same....others have not.  Al Strobel told me that originally more of it was going to be shown...

IN closing, I want to say that if by me simply suggesting you reread my original post, you found me to be rude...then I am sorry.

However, you were obviously rude on PURPOSE.....I only want to discuss these things.  If you don't like my statements, then please don't participate in my conversations. 

Everything you have just spent all that time saying about "Robert/Son of Robert" I already said in a previous post on one of your threads.  Maybe YOU need to go back and read.

You're right, this is a discussion board, and people come to discuss... but part of that means listening to what OTHER people have to say and not just the things that agree with you.  It is frustrating to have a "conversation" with someone so reluctant to consider alternative points of view and carefully and respectfully read the contributions of others.

It's always been my understanding that the official solution to the letters puzzle was "ROBERT".

Everything you have just spent all that time saying about "Robert/Son of Robert" I already said in a previous post on one of your threads.  Maybe YOU need to go back and read.

You're right, this is a discussion board, and people come to discuss... but part of that means listening to what OTHER people have to say and not just the things that agree with you.  It is frustrating to have a "conversation" with someone so reluctant to consider alternative points of view and carefully and respectfully read the contributions of others.

Oh...I am listening.  I listen, and I write a response.  Isn't that how it is supposed to work? 

I have no idea what could be bothering you.  I read, I responded...you got mad about it and said I didn't listen.  Don't know what I do so wrong.

It's always been my understanding that the official solution to the letters puzzle was "ROBERT".

 As I stated....I have always thought this too.  HOWEVER, I do admit it could be ROBERTSON.  I think that is something that only Lynch and Frost can know for sure.   Interesting.  I will have to keep this in mind whenever I watch the show again.  (which will be soon!)  lol

It's always been my understanding that the official solution to the letters puzzle was "ROBERT".

Or...

The Haywards furniture is about to enter a world of pain I'm afraid...

I don't know why, but it has never before occured to me that the Hayward couch has a ridiculous amount of throw pillows on it.  How does more than one person find room to sit down? 

I've never really understood the concept of throw pillows, especially the uncomfortable, scratchy kind that are useless for laying or sitting on.  Are you supposed to "throw" them on the floor?  Or grin and bear the pain of their course textures?

Maybe only Doc sits there... Harriet is too busy with her poems, Gersten with her music, Eileen with Ben, and Donna with whatever silly plan she's involved with James and/or Maddy...