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1. Thursday, January 24, 2008 12:04 PM
s2mikey The "Firewalk" poem analysis/questions.....


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You pros have prolly covered this before but Im new to the show so I get a free pass.

 Anyways, the poem that Mike recites and that comes up in the show from time to time, is there a unified theory or "explanation" of its meaning?  If you go line by line:

"Through the darkness of futures passed" - This is the line I dont quite have a take on. The darkness part is likely referring to the overall "dark" nature of the Black Lodge clientel but what is "futures past" referring to?

"The Magician longs to see" - Im gonna say that this is simply what BOB or other evil spirits "wish" to happen.  They "long" to see suffering and anguish. The "Magician" , I assume is the evil spirits or maybe BOB in this context.???

"One chants out between two worlds" - This is also a little perplexing to me. Is this in reference to a "good" world and a "bad" world?  Does it refer to different planes of reality?  Is the chanting part referring to an evil spirit "requesting" the soul of an innocent person or "asking" that person to allow the spirit in?   IMO, this might just be the evil trying to "bridge" over to the good side and take over.  The word "worlds" may not have explicit meaning.... I dunno??

"Fire, Walk with me" - Im going to assume that the word "fire" refers to Leland talking about "playing with fire" as a boy being tempted by BOB. The "walk with me" part might just mean "come along with me on my journey of terror and destruction".  Or, does "fire" refer to the person being inhabited???

Damn, even a 4-line poem has me racking my brain!  Damned Lynch!


 
2. Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:10 PM
Fred RE: The


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QUOTE:

You pros have prolly covered this before but Im new to the show so I get a free pass.

 Anyways, the poem that Mike recites and that comes up in the show from time to time, is there a unified theory or "explanation" of its meaning?  If you go line by line:

"Through the darkness of futures passed" - This is the line I dont quite have a take on. The darkness part is likely referring to the overall "dark" nature of the Black Lodge clientel but what is "futures past" referring to?

"The Magician longs to see" - Im gonna say that this is simply what BOB or other evil spirits "wish" to happen.  They "long" to see suffering and anguish. The "Magician" , I assume is the evil spirits or maybe BOB in this context.???

"One chants out between two worlds" - This is also a little perplexing to me. Is this in reference to a "good" world and a "bad" world?  Does it refer to different planes of reality?  Is the chanting part referring to an evil spirit "requesting" the soul of an innocent person or "asking" that person to allow the spirit in?   IMO, this might just be the evil trying to "bridge" over to the good side and take over.  The word "worlds" may not have explicit meaning.... I dunno??

"Fire, Walk with me" - Im going to assume that the word "fire" refers to Leland talking about "playing with fire" as a boy being tempted by BOB. The "walk with me" part might just mean "come along with me on my journey of terror and destruction".  Or, does "fire" refer to the person being inhabited???

Damn, even a 4-line poem has me racking my brain!  Damned Lynch!


I don't think there's a universally-accepted interpretation. Everyone has a slightly different reading of the poem. "Future past" or "Future's past" etc, could mean a confusion of time, or a magician attempting prophecy, ie, attempting to look into the future and see what will happen. Also, a message is sent back in time. Remember when Laura dreams of Dale in FWWM? The magician could be Pierre Tremond who is "studying magic". His tricks involve moving creamed corn across the room! However, Mike, BOB and several others could be regarded as magicians. Even Cooper starts to use magic, in addition to FBI guidelines, Tibetan method and standard Sherlock-Holmes-style deductive techniques. The magician just longs to see into the future. I don't think he longs to see bad or evil events happening. He just wants to know what will happen. The two worlds could be different planes of reality, as you suggest, ie, our familiar world and the world of the Red Room/Black Lodge/White Lodge, etc. There's a big debate over "one chance" or "one chants", each variant having slightly different interpretations. I think Fire is a metaphor for evil, as in the fires of hell, in the Christian religion. But remember certain people in India are able (through self-discipline) to walk on hot (fiery) coals, as Coop mentions to JJ Wheeler. I think you're right about Leland as a boy being corrupted by BOB. If Leland is tricked into uttering the wrods "Fire walk with me", BOB (the epitome of evil) can demonically possess him. These are the magic words of a spell. If uttered, they are very powerful. Even Cooper utters them in the end, gazing at a blackboard with a strange map, but ultimately he is taken over and lost. I wonder if events would have been different if Coop had not uttered these diabolical and potent words...
 

 
3. Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:46 PM
MayorMilford RE: The


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Is there an accepted interpretation of the line "One ... out between two worlds"?  Is it chance or chants?  I always thought it to be chants but for all I know it could be chance.

 
4. Friday, January 25, 2008 2:13 AM
Profeetta RE: The


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The poem is words put together in a fine order to give you exiting, mysterious & magical feeling. Giving it one "right" explanation would kill the magic of it. 

 
5. Friday, January 25, 2008 8:59 AM
s2mikey RE: The


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QUOTE:
QUOTE:

You pros have prolly covered this before but Im new to the show so I get a free pass.

Anyways, the poem that Mike recites and that comes up in the show from time to time, is there a unified theory or "explanation" of its meaning? If you go line by line:

"Through the darkness of futures passed" - This is the line I dont quite have a take on. The darkness part is likely referring to the overall "dark" nature of the Black Lodge clientel but what is "futures past" referring to?

"The Magician longs to see" - Im gonna say that this is simply what BOB or other evil spirits "wish" to happen. They "long" to see suffering and anguish. The "Magician" , I assume is the evil spirits or maybe BOB in this context.???

"One chants out between two worlds" - This is also a little perplexing to me. Is this in reference to a "good" world and a "bad" world? Does it refer to different planes of reality? Is the chanting part referring to an evil spirit "requesting" the soul of an innocent person or "asking" that person to allow the spirit in? IMO, this might just be the evil trying to "bridge" over to the good side and take over. The word "worlds" may not have explicit meaning.... I dunno??

"Fire, Walk with me" - Im going to assume that the word "fire" refers to Leland talking about "playing with fire" as a boy being tempted by BOB. The "walk with me" part might just mean "come along with me on my journey of terror and destruction". Or, does "fire" refer to the person being inhabited???

Damn, even a 4-line poem has me racking my brain! Damned Lynch!


I don't think there's a universally-accepted interpretation. Everyone has a slightly different reading of the poem. "Future past" or "Future's past" etc, could mean a confusion of time, or a magician attempting prophecy, ie, attempting to look into the future and see what will happen. Also, a message is sent back in time. Remember when Laura dreams of Dale in FWWM? The magician could be Pierre Tremond who is "studying magic". His tricks involve moving creamed corn across the room! However, Mike, BOB and several others could be regarded as magicians. Even Cooper starts to use magic, in addition to FBI guidelines, Tibetan method and standard Sherlock-Holmes-style deductive techniques. The magician just longs to see into the future. I don't think he longs to see bad or evil events happening. He just wants to know what will happen. The two worlds could be different planes of reality, as you suggest, ie, our familiar world and the world of the Red Room/Black Lodge/White Lodge, etc. There's a big debate over "one chance" or "one chants", each variant having slightly different interpretations. I think Fire is a metaphor for evil, as in the fires of hell, in the Christian religion. But remember certain people in India are able (through self-discipline) to walk on hot (fiery) coals, as Coop mentions to JJ Wheeler. I think you're right about Leland as a boy being corrupted by BOB. If Leland is tricked into uttering the wrods "Fire walk with me", BOB (the epitome of evil) can demonically possess him. These are the magic words of a spell. If uttered, they are very powerful. Even Cooper utters them in the end, gazing at a blackboard with a strange map, but ultimately he is taken over and lost. I wonder if events would have been different if

Hmmm.... good stuff here.  I like your comments.  I never thought of the "chants" or "chance" issue.  Damn, yet another thing to ponder.  


 
6. Friday, January 25, 2008 11:20 AM
Profeetta RE: The


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Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it confirmed that DL's intention was that it's "chants", not "chance"? But off course those both words fit into the poem in their own way, and yes, I know that the fans will go on forever about which is the right one...

 
7. Friday, January 25, 2008 11:58 AM
LODGE4 RE: The


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One chants out between two worlds - In order to leave the black lodge , A dugpa must chant "fire walk with me" multiple times to cause a rift between the two worlds to enter ours.

You don't actually see this in the show but that's what that part of the poem means - The word is most definately chants, not chance. There is more than one chance out of the black lodge, after all.

 
8. Friday, January 25, 2008 12:35 PM
Profeetta RE: The


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The poem sure does feel and sound better with 'chants', I would say.

 
9. Friday, January 25, 2008 8:16 PM
Ivan Sputnik RE: The


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In David Lynch's Images book, the poem is printed exactly this way:

Thru the darkness
of Future Past
the magician longs to see
one chants out
between two worlds
Fire -- walk with me.

 


The question is, Where have you gone?
 
10. Friday, January 25, 2008 9:58 PM
MayorMilford RE: The


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QUOTE:

In David Lynch's Images book, the poem is printed exactly this way:

Thru the darkness
of Future Past
the magician longs to see
one chants out
between two worlds
Fire -- walk with me.

 

Oh nice.  Thanks.  I remember hearing people say that it was "chance" and it made even less sense to me.

 
11. Friday, January 25, 2008 11:02 PM
PopolVuh RE: The


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There's subtitles that contradict if I recall. While I might be leaning towards "chants" again, I still like the idea of it being both. "Chants-" that one's easy, I suppose BOB and others must chant "Fire Walk With Me" in order to pass from our world to the Lodge. "Chance-" that one's for us humans, one chance to prove yourself between the real world (or the waiting room) and the Black Lodge... "Fire Walk With Me-" BOOM: Flames erupt, there's your one chance. I could see BOB as the magician (or by variation a dugpa); the "darkness of futures past" is the Black Lodge, as time is not linear in the Lodge. He longs to see through his possibly limiting world into our tempting one, by having fun with doomed souls. As someone mentioned before, Coop employs magic (admitting that there's no other way of classifying it), and this is in order to see through what has been in the dark (who killed Laura) of a future passed (the 25-years later fleeting dream).

Again, just fun interpretations.

 
12. Saturday, January 26, 2008 1:33 AM
Profeetta RE: The


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QUOTE:

In David Lynch's Images book, the poem is printed exactly this way:

Thru the darkness
of Future Past
the magician longs to see
one chants out
between two worlds
Fire -- walk with me.

 

 

Yeah, and Al Strobel first got the the poem as DL's handwritten note where it said 'chants'.

What comes to explanations, I'd like to state that even though I don't find searching for "the right meaning" interesting, I do like to have fun with interpretation possibilities and sure like to read all of your views.

 

 
13. Saturday, January 26, 2008 6:54 AM
Evenreven RE: The


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QUOTE:

One chants out between two worlds - In order to leave the black lodge , A dugpa must chant "fire walk with me" multiple times to cause a rift between the two worlds to enter ours.

You don't actually see this in the show but that's what that part of the poem means - The word is most definately chants, not chance. There is more than one chance out of the black lodge, after all.



I agree with you, but Hawk does say that the Lodge "will utterly annihilate your soul". Which could mean that there's only one chance.


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
14. Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:42 AM
Profeetta RE: The


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Yes, and there is also one chance that one takes. The chance that one might end up in Black Lodge or White Lodge. Still, I'm sticking with 'chants'. Sounds better.

 
15. Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:03 AM
Evenreven RE: The


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Me too. And since "chance" seems to have been a mistake, we obviously have to go with "chants". I'm somewhat confused as to why it says "chance" in the script, though. Did Frost just misspell it during writing? Anyway, Lynch is the authority when it comes to Mike and BOB.


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
16. Saturday, January 26, 2008 11:52 AM
Profeetta RE: The


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Evenreven just spoke my language. I've never understood why some people choose to ignore facts and go with 'chance'.

 
17. Saturday, January 26, 2008 1:24 PM
PopolVuh RE: The


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In the words of Lynch himself: "Bullshit. Complete, fucking, bullshit." Doesn't Lynch also say that he welcomes interpretations in his non-linear work that don't necessarily correspond to his own intentions (which he doesn't even reveal for that reason)? I don't care whether it was scripted that way; if sources make that contradiction, then I'm of the opinion that it's for a reason. I'm not deeming any of my ideas as the real thing, and neither should anyone else unless Lynch and/or Frost do a proverbial "scientist in lab coat" explanation to wrap up the whole of the series and its mythos. Think about it, pertaining to the Black Lodge, the townsfolk all have a different idea of what it is/means: Sheriff Truman and the Bookhouse Boys deem it "The evil in the woods," Hawk refers to it as the Black Lodge, and Margaret Lanterman has "The owls."

 Again, just more fun interpretations, but I frankly got a bit peeved when people wrote about "facts" pertaining to this show, and more specifically this aspect of the show.

 
18. Saturday, January 26, 2008 1:34 PM
Evenreven RE: The


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As much as I agree in principle about the fact that all interpretations are valid ones, that's not the same as saying it's "chance" because it says so in an erroneous source. That's more like 2+2=5. If I quote incorrectly, that's not an interpretation. It's just incorrect. Al Strobel and David Lynch have both said it's "chants". What more do you need? A written statement from Mark Frost saying he wrote it down wrong in the script?


"What credit card do you want to put that on?"
"Caash, prease."

tojamura

 
19. Saturday, January 26, 2008 1:44 PM
JFK RE: The


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albie needs to read this thread.
on second hand, maybe not.

 
20. Saturday, January 26, 2008 2:44 PM
Profeetta RE: The


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Well, Evenreven said it all already. But I can't shut up. I too agree that all interpretations are valid ones. I'm not trying to make the right interpretations & I'd never try to force other people to go with mine. Hell, my own views change all the time and that's the way I like it.

But we were talking about a whole different thing. We were talking about that the line of the poem has been incorrectly quoted at some point. And for some reason, maybe because the incorrect one has appeared in the script, people have started thinking that maybe it really is "chance" not "chants" or maybe it's both & made all kinds of theories to back up their beliefs

PoplVuh, I agree with the most of what you said in your last post. You just mixed things and got me all wrong. Or something, whatever. When I was talking about the "facts", I wasn't talking about wrapping up the whole mythos or "deeming my own ideas as the real thing". All I was talking about was that Al Strobel and David Lynch have said it is "chants", and even if they didn't I like it better that way. That's all, get it?

 

 
21. Saturday, January 26, 2008 4:46 PM
3519273540 RE: The


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With respect to interpretation, I agree that "facts" is a bad word. However, there are certain things that are factual. For example, you could say that the part of Cooper was played by John Wayne, that would contradict the fact that the part was played by Kyle MacLachlan. When it comes to dialogue, and this poem, there are facts about what was written, and what was said. Lynch wrote the poem, Lynch says it's "chants", so it's chants. If someone misheard a line from Shakespeare and misquoted it in a script of theirs, that wouldn't make the misquotation another "interpretation" of Shakespeare, it would just be a misquote, even if you like it better, even if it opens up new meanings for the line.

 
22. Saturday, January 26, 2008 5:04 PM
PopolVuh RE: The


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Well there's not much more I can say. I'll maintain that it's fact, but STILL make those interpretations . No hard feelings, I guess I felt a little affected before.

 
23. Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:33 AM
Profeetta RE: The


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No hard feelings.

 
24. Sunday, January 27, 2008 3:47 PM
alleyghost RE: The


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OK here's my take on it.

 

The poem is actually recited in the show -not exactly written-, so I think even if you have the 'right' version of the script, it is actually irrelevant since it is a vocal formulation and 'chance' or 'chants' sound exactly the same.

So the possibility that it has both meaning is actually more potent for me, since it packs more different interpretations.

The line 'Thru the darkness of future past' is actually pretty intriguing.

I think it has to do with parallel worlds. Future past is actually situated between the present and the future, ends before the actual future. The parallel of present time, in the form of white or black lodge. 'Darkness' denotes an unclear, unpure will at work. But it could be the assumption that every soul has a dark place or that this kind of activity darkens it.

Now a problem I see stems from the possibility the 'magician' could 'long to see' either the future past or through it. I'm still undecided about it. Maybe if the dugpa "sees through" the lodges means he can get out from the lodges, thus acting upon the 'reality' outside from what he has gathered, be it energy, information or else his hearts desires (garmonbozia, for example). The 'see' part implies survival or integrity thus a certain mastery (or magicianship?)

The second part of the poem is like an activation key.

There is also something about 'One chants out'....(I'll leave the 'between two worlds' for now)...'Fire walk with me'. One chants, but two are walking, in the end: this strikes me with the whole doppelganger thing going on. So this is what I think: One is one between two worlds, but separates in two when going through the 'darkness of future past', the multiplication of possibilities and might 'see through' which is to say live and learn so to speak, thus eventually be one again but with increased possibilities.


The sound wind makes through the pines. The sentience of animals. What we fear and what lies beyond the darkness.

 
25. Sunday, January 27, 2008 4:59 PM
3519273540 RE: The


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No. Homophones can not freely be substituted for each other. I can't substitute "too" or "to" for "two", even though they sound the same when spoken, no matter what great "interpretations" that might bring.

 

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