.One of the guys has taken to watching it very early every Saturday morning before his wife gets up because he tried watching it while she was awake and she'd join him and then pepper him with a million inane questions WHILE the show was still going. He finally told her she was too stupid to watch anything other than Friends. (sounds mean, but I've had the displeasure of knowing her for five years, and she really IS too stupid for anything more complex than half-hour comedies or whatever Nickelodeon has to offer).

Daaaamn. Sounds like marital bliss.  Then again, Our varying opinion on TP is probably the reason Rob and I will never get married.

I haven't updated this thread lately, mostly because everyone is pretty firmly ensconced in the Twin Peaks mindset now, and there's less reactive stuff to report that's out of the ordinary...

Everyone is totally loving SuperNadine, terrible throwing-a-guy special effects and all. Attention is definitely waning quickly on Little Nicky. The actual dramatic value of Hawk's hand-acting has been brought into question.

But by far the best of all, the James and Evelyn subplot has been redeemed, as pure comedy gold.

Here's what you do: watch the Marsh subplot, and whenever James is on-screen, right from that first shot of him riding his cycle through the woods onwards, you watch as though all the in-scene music, and all the sound effects (loons, crickets, etc.) that don't directly correspond to on-screen events, are all actually going on in his head as things are happening. It's better in some scenes than in others, obviously, but it definitely makes them watchable again...

Here's what you do: watch the Marsh subplot, and whenever James is on-screen, right from that first shot of him riding his cycle through the woods onwards, you watch as though all the in-scene music, and all the sound effects (loons, crickets, etc.) that don't directly correspond to on-screen events, are all actually going on in his head as things are happening. It's better in some scenes than in others, obviously, but it definitely makes them watchable again...

OK, that made me laugh out loud just now while trying to imagine this. :) It worked instantly...and for once I'm actually looking forward to watching those episodes. I want to try this out soon. :D

It's interesting how scary people find some moments I don't find particularly frightening, such as BOB's first appearance in episode 1 (not the extended pilot), and Ronnette's dream at the end of episode 8, yet are relatively unnerved by Sarah's vision, Coop's dream in episode 2, or the scene in episode 6 where the unseen man watches over Maddy, Donna, and James. Also people laugh at the oddest times (the incredibly sad scene where Sarah cries over Laura's death, and the scene where Bobby and Mike bark at James. Also people pick up on Laura and Jacoby's relationship in his very first scene... every time. Then again I saw episode 1 before the pilot, so I'm not sure how easy that is to infer... Also a girl made a hilarious comment when watching Julee Cruise "sing": "Is this a lip synching contest or something?" She was totally serious too...

Speaking of people laughing at the oddest times...when we showed FWWM at the '04 Festival, I kid you not, the audience laughed through all but the last ten minutes of the movie. I mean, almost right up to Laura's murder. Some people still laughed a bit when Laura screams upon seeing BOB's face in the mirror beneath her. I was so appalled. And I'm not talking about a mere giggle. I'm talking some full-on belly laughs. I mean, there is of course dark humor in FWWM here and there and sometimes you have to let off a tiny tension chuckle during more serious scenes. But they laughed at so many other things, like when Leland finds Laura in the cabin and screams in her face. I was like "Oh come on. Are you people depraved or something?" Appalling.

Tangent:

I had the occasion to see "Taxi Driver" in an art theater in New York City. The audience reacted to the movie as if it were an Adam Sandler "awkward loner" film. To one listening from the outside, it was apparently the height of comedy. Anyone who has seen "Taxi Driver" knows how silly that is. I have heard a similar story with "2001". People can't seem to react genuinely to an older film.

I think audiences today just have trouble handling disturbing films. I've heard many people say that they laughed through Sweeney Todd, and made fun of it the entire time... I'm really not sure what to say to this. Though it does have bits of extremely dark comedy at just the right moments (particularly in the song "A Little Priest"), I think it's a powerful and disturbing tragedy, that isn't cheapened a bit by the fact that the film is a musical. As for why people would make fun of it I'm at a complete loss, it is a brilliantly crafted, and exceptionally acted film in my opinion (though it is over the top in a way rarely seen in films today). I'm guessing the use of music is so strange and unconventional given the kind of story the film is telling, that people mistake it for a comedy; I still find it very disturbing that so many people mistake unique artistic vision for cheap laughs.

I'm not sure if Sweeney Todd is the best example. There are all kinds of intentional laughs there, like visual gags and intentionally over-the-top acting - especially by Timothy Spall and Helena Bonham Carter. But I see what you mean. And I like the film a lot, and found it true emotionally in a way I've never really found any other Tim Burton film. But laughs there doesn't bother me nearly as much as laughing through Taxi Driver or the Twin Peaks pilot. And if I'd been in a cinema with people laughing through the ending of Fire Walk with Me, I would have considered violence as the only option. I didn't subscribe to the idea of beating sense into people until I read this thread.

To be a "little" bit fair, the bulk of the audience wasn't festival attendees...the Seattle Art Museum sells tickets to the general public and their own members as well, and I think a lot of times they come to see these films because they can, not necessarily because they actually have an interest in it. (as evidenced by the gasps and shocked faces during a screening of Wild at Heart back in '03) I fully believe that the majority of laughers during FWWM were the non-fest viewers. And I think they just...dunno...I think they saw it as just a melodrama rather than a dark story of a girl's life spiraling swiftly downwards.

I really wanted to bash some teeth in at the end of it all. I get really caught up in FWWM and the constant laughter just kept pulling me right back out of it. I really tried to see it from the perspective of a non-Lynch/TP fan, but it never worked. I guess for me, seeing a girl being harassed and molested by her own father just isn't all that hilarious.  (they actually found it funny when Leland is trying to talk to Laura at breakfast that last morning, and she gives him that kind of sideways glance while slouched over her cereal bowl. Oh ha ha, that incest/rape last night was a riot! )

Now, pretending all the music is taking place in James' head to make the Evelyn plotline more digestible? I'm all behind that...

I suspect that people are increasingly unschooled in watching different genres of work, dazed by television and the lowest common denominator as we've all at least partly become. (Or maybe I'm just wearing my cynical hat today.)

I can see where one might find humor in the heavily stylized acting that Lynch films usually feature, but when I watch unusual work I'm (ideally) submerged enough in the film-world that I can abide by the rules of engagement.

I certainly know people who, because they can't relate to the storytelling style, assume that certain films are just badly made. And there's no way to explain to someone, "you're just not watching it the right way"...

- - - - -

Meanwhile, I'm glad the James'-head scenario isn't one of those you had to be there phenomena. Sometimes it's hard to tell if a thing like that will travel. :)

I'm watching the show with my sister now and we're at episode 18, so I'll have plenty of use for the James trick. Sounds like a great idea!

I was genuinely surprised at the laughter at the 2004 screening.  I don't remember anyone laughing either time I saw it in the theater in 1992 -- complaining afterward, yes, but not laughing. 

Sadly, I realized that they were not laughing with the film, they were laughing at it, or at least at parts of it.  And this wasn't a megaplex matinee, this was the Seattle Art Museum.  It may be my favorite film of all time, but I guess there are parts of FWWM that are not very good.

Oh ha ha, that incest/rape last night was a riot! )

Rape, jape, let's call the whole thing off.

Yes, Sweeney Todd wasn't the best example I could think of, but it was something that was bugging me today, since several people were laughing about it. Some of them even called out Depp's performance as laughable, which I was astonished at. Btw, did you not find Edward Scissorhands emotionally true?

I haven't seen it in more than ten years, on a small TV only half paying attention, so I can't really remember. I might when I see it again.

Johnny Depp does definitely not play Todd for laughs, even less so than he's done for any part in years. He's driven. Obsessed. Nothing laughable about it. Unless you can't handle obsession expressed through singing.

Phew, if there's one thing that episodes 21 & 22 are good for, it's unintentional hilarity.

All I'll say is that everyone's very relieved that the Marsh business is over with, the majority view of the Diane Keaton episode is that it sucked ass (but for the writing as much as if not more than the direction), and the James trick stopped working.

21 was much better than I remembered, but 22 was just as bad, maybe worse. The climactic Evelyn scene is really funny though. One thing I've realized is that, although Evelyn's storyline is really awful, it's actually very much in keeping with the themes of the show, though in a really poor, hackneyed way. 23 was a little worse than I remembered, I remembered as being almost totally focused on the Josie story, and didn't realized it introduced John Justice Wheeler (this is far worse than Ben Horne's Civil War, though it doesn't receive as much criticism, at least the former story was entertaining). The last 2/3 (aside from the horrid ending) is quite excellent though, too bad they had to ruin that. Somehow I managed to block out how horribly cheesy the effects are at the end there... maybe I thought it would look less cheap with the DVD color correction or something. There are some things you just can't change. But even with the best effects in the world, you can't erase the desperation of that moment. Thank God it's not how the show went out.

Yeah, in all honesty, this time through was when I became sympathetic to the idea of ending the series at 16.  It ties up fairly well, and Cooper hasn't run off the rails yet...

I like the Lodge business, and Briggs becomes one of my favorite characters in this last part, but there's so much borderline material that it kind of undercuts the solid quality of what went before.

JVS,

 I completely agree with with what you just said. 16 ties it off pretty well...but, if TP would have had a shorter second season, that ended with....i don't know, maybe 19 eps, the show may have survived.  Imagine if after Leland's death the story focused on the lodges right away...we may have something there.

 Also, i'm completely jealous of you having a group to watch TP with!  I only know 1 other person who even knows what it is.  I tried to show it to another friend and he just stopped at ep. 5.  Congrats on knowing people with open minds and good taste!

1) Jacques's Clue Cabin is a definite laff riot. Red drapes! Music in the air! Blood! There's Waldo! Here's some photos! Twine on the floor! Broken poker chip! All jammed into twenty seconds on the slowest-paced show on television!

Wow, what TV shows do you watch? I'm always astonished by Twin Peaks's breakneck pace in the first season... seems there's a major plot development in every scene. The pilot and episode 8 are pretty slow paced, but aside from that.... Ever seen an episode of Lost? The most exciting, fast paced episodes are nowhere near the pace of any Twin Peaks episode... Sopranos also has a much slower pace, as does My So-Called Life... really I find it hard to think of any serial TV show as fast paced as TP.

The pace of TP seems fast only since the dramatic tension between the scenes is so strong. The editing is actually slow as molasses, even by 1990 standards. Mike and Bobby's scene in their cell ("You do not know Leo Johnson!") is mostly one take, and two minutes or so without a cut is a lot by any standard. There are no quick tracking or handheld shots in the first season at all except Mike, Bobby and Leo in the woods. It only seems fast since we're so invested and wrapped up in the action.

Not saying you're wrong, I just think we're talking about different kinds of pace.

Yes, the editing's slow, but it seems like there's some kind of tantalizing plot twist or developement in every scene... each episode always seems so packed with information.

Completely agree, I was just explaining what I think JVS meant. I was noticing the last time I saw episode 6 and 7 that even the action sequence with Leland watching Jacoby and Bobby watching Maddy dressed as Laura waiting for Jacoby (phew!) is extremely slow. It's just that the narrative is so packed and so tense that it feels fast-paced. Which is very, very cool.

Wow, getting through the past four of five episodes has been brutal. Scheduling has been tricky, but I also can't blame the gang for not being super-enthused. Never before have I been so aware just how far the quality dipped just prior to the homestretch.

Most of the laughter at this point is accidental. For example, when Harry gets drunk and trashes the Bookhouse, did you know he systematically went around the room and skewed every single hanging picture on the walls? It's true, apparently. And when you're watching with a group who are mostly sophisticated viewers, some of whom work on films, the experience becomes less drinking the wine and more critiquing the bottle.

After Josie got trapped in the knob -- an event I was secretly dreading almost as much as Billy Zane singing cowboy songs in a mixolydian key or whatever that was -- a friend said "so, what exactly are we supposed to take away from that scene?"  My reply: "that the A-list writers were all on vacation."

At any rate, the Project Blue Book angle is about to start up, so that'll give everyone something to actually care about again.

the experience becomes less drinking the wine and more critiquing the bottle.

More like critiquing the box.

I gotta say, I'm kinda new to Twin Peaks and I always watch it with a group of people. Only one of these has ever seen the entirity of Twin Peaks and supplies the DVD. We're always so excited and we're totally sucked into the whole thing. A few points:

1. Special Agent Dale Cooper is GOD.

2. We absolutely LOVE specualting about what's gonna happen next. A lot of the ideas are actually ridiculous even for Lynch and totally contradicting to each other, but we love it anyway.

3. We're unsure of our opinion of Albert. (At least us newbies) At first we REALLY didn't like him, but his sarcasm is really warming up to us.

4. Leland Palmer obviously missed his calling on Broadway.

5. The music is awesome.

Whatever happened to really good shows like this? We're in love with the show, seriously. Good quality TV right here :-)