http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23171567/

Now what needs to accompany such as story is something like:

"Here on school campuses, guns are illegal, yet the shootings persist. Clearly, the only recourse students have to save the lives of themselves and one another is for they themselves to be armed and alert. Had one of those kids been packing, we'd have one dead psycho and a hero, and several less corpses."

But no chance in Hell on the coldest day of the year unless gun rights mentalities change

Oh yes, the comfort and security of another " gun free zone" just like all the others!!

Arming campus security or teachers or allowing qualified students to carry on campus ? How uncivilized.[sarc]  Well, these maniacs go to those schools KNOWING that their’s will be the only gun there.

Some good points made here.  The US is in a transition period that results in problems like this.  It's either transitioning to full gun ownership, or else may join the modern world and ban gun ownership except for special circumstances.

I can't recall ever having a gun massacre in a school in Australia.  Why?  Because guns are difficult to get, and people recognise them as a danger that they'd be better off without.  So 99% of the population are unarmed - and guess what?  When someone has a bad day, or a bad moment even - they can't just reach for a gun and take out a dozen people.  At best their bad moment will pass and they'll calm down, at worst they may get a knife and kill 1-2 people instead of 12 before being overpowered.  But guns are basically designed to kill things - and they do their job well.  It should be no surprise that if you pump out millions of guns into your community that you get a proliferation of gun violence - why the surprise?  The fact there is shock and surprise in the US is what bemuses the rest of the world so much.  Has the NRA brainwashed the populace so thoroughly that you can't see the woods for the trees?

But I do sympathise because the guns are out there now...which leaves the non-nutters wondering what to do.  Do you set a good example, refuse to own a gun, but set yourself up as a harmless potential target?  Or do you arm yourself so you can be prepared to stop the other guy who flips out and goes on a shooting spree?  My vote would be for people to choose to set the right example - and gradually change that transition back to a more modern, peaceful society.  But I can understand the fear you must have - and hence feel the need to own guns.

There is no simple solution...

Cybaca,

Australia is a tough continent. Did the settlers just use knives like Crocodile Dundee ?

The US has always had firearms-from muskets forward. Legal and illegal firearms are ubiquitous here in the states.

What if.... just what IF... someone had had the foresight to ban cyanide gas before the Holocaust...

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

You mean the anarchistic utilatarian. He would be clear on this. He would have a simple answer. Or the other Godwin who cautioned about using H***** references in debate ?

Above us, there is, i assume, an actual quote from H####,and is on target ( :)) directly with the thread subject. A step up from a knee jerk unspecific H%%%% reference. No ?

 But you meant the first fellow?

Okay, I'm lost in obtusity. I have heard of Arthur Godfrey though.

No fair Googling either. 

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Raymond

Haven't you seen Crocodile Dundee?  A knife is all we need to take care of most pests...

But seriously - sure, when we were inhabiting the place, under attack from aborigines, crocodiles, etc - a gun would've been useful.  But those days are long gone - we're a civilised, modern country now.

We have armed rangers to take care of the wild animals, and armed police to take care of problem people.

If we armed everyone we'd just be multiplying the problem, and end up like the US.

Like I said, I sympathise because you're in a dilemma living there.  My personal approach would be to avoid problem areas and problem people, and then your chances of being gunned down are pretty small - confined to postal incidents at work or school.  Going the other way and arming yourself just adds to the problem imho, as you may become a participant in an accidental shooting, gun theft etc...

I currently have no firearm. I left mine with my nephew. So Cy, ok I'll forgo gang controlled neighborhoods, avoid work and school and above all avoid " gun free zones".

Maybe get a bigger knife mate ? Hey I've seen some questionable types around here on my own block.

It's scary when US troop commanders report that they regularly lose more men back in the US than they are losing in Iraq...

As a gun toting crazy bitch...aren't drugs illegal?  And don't people still get drugs?  Isn't driving under the influence illegal?  Don't people still do it?  We still know nothing about this guy.  Is it his gun?  His parent's gun? 

Police do not have a motive, but said Kazmierczak recently became somewhat erratic after he stopped taking medication that Grady would not identify. NIU police are leading the investigation with assistance from the FBI and Illinois State Police.

Riiiigggghhhht...medication! 

Did he even go to school there?  I don't even know!

Someone suggested it's an insurance thing for the schools. That I can see. Still, hypothetically speaking, if I have a concealed weapon, and it's concealed, no one knows I have it.  Desperate times call for desperate measures. Our options are live in fear, cross your fingers it's not going to happens to you, or quietly break the law in the name of the greater good.

No one is going to start posting armed guards in every classroom.

I say if you have a firearm, bring it to school. Conceal it well, and be prepared. 

I am going to be pissed if this happens in my classroom when there's something I could do to save lives.

The Falls

I have read that in articles more than once.  It wasn't linked particularly to gun violence in the US - I have made an assumption there.  It was just a statement that due to accidents and all the other causes of fatalities, some US commanders have reported they lose more men in normal service in the US than they are losing in Iraq.  I can understand there would be a number of reasons why that wouldn't be widely circulated in the US media...

Google quickly threw up a couple of links...I can see some obvious flaws in their logic, but on the bare facts, it's hard to argue...

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/crs-stats-show-troop-deaths-at-peacetime-rate

http://www.nysun.com/article/48926

A quick edit to my last post, the shooter was apparently a "nice guy", loved NIU and was going for his masters at U of I.  No one had a clue why he went there or what the heck happened.  Without getting too personal here, he was institutionalized by his parents in high school and on medication that made him feel "like a zombie" and he quit taking it.  My mother put me away in high school because I was acting like a teenager.  If any of you have taken anti depressants, they do make you feel like a zombie and a lot of people quit taking them.

He must not have been institutionalized in a state facility or proved to be a danger otherwise he couldn't have obtained his FOID card.  The guns he had were legal.  I am still trying to figure out how he could carry two handguns and a shotgun.

Normally I don't even post in topics like this because I can't hold my own on political discussions (they always end up that way), but I am so infuriated with all this!  I have a daughter in 6th grade at a school in a VERY tough neighborhood.  I refuse to live in terror, because anywhere, anytime, someone can just up and shoot you!  On the same token, what if my daughter gets holed up in a classroom by some psycho!?