Home | Register | Login | Members  

David Lynch > The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind
New Topic | Post Reply
<< | 1 | 2 | >>  
1. Friday, September 5, 2008 2:49 AM
mr. silencio The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 12/20/2005
 Posts:1466

 View Profile
 Send PM

Okay, so... Here are some little but curious new thoughts and things I got with my umpteenth viewing of Mulholland Dr. last night.

- In the car accident scene, there is a bit elaborated editing on the point where the smoke starts scattering around. The same kind of shots & editing returns in the finale, right after Diane shoots herself.

- It is quite evident to me that the elderly couple are not Diane's relatives. In the dinner party scene she only talks about an aunt. There are no men in the picture. Those two people, who first appear for a brief and hazy moment at the end of the opening sequence with the jitterbug contest, are beside her head. They first appear as a white, unfocused blob and the three of them are a whole thing, you know... So, I take that Lynch thought those two characters as some representatives of her own self. It's her brain, that sets in motion a dream, that that will eventually release them again at the end, out of the blue box, to drive Diane to the suicidal bed. They are the Giant and the Little man from another place of Mulholland Dr.. They are the ones that keep custody of her own mental processes. They are no grandparents or uncle & auntie.

Also, the parallel between this and Twin Peaks seems prettynatural since in the Lodge they like to play little scary tricks and games, illusions and exchanges of persona... Just like the dream in Diane's mind likes making fun of her/us...

Diane's mind has her own dwellers and it's no surprise that Mike Anderson (the little man) appears again in the role of Mr. Roque

Have you ever thought of the film in these terms? 


"Did they scoff the whole damn Smörgåsbord?" (Audrey) 

"Gimme a donut!" (Coop)

 
2. Friday, September 5, 2008 9:03 AM
giospurs RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 5/22/2007
 Posts:811

 View Profile
 Send PM

Nice observations.

I watched MD for the second time just now. I've deliberately steered clear of any definitive "explanation" up to now, because I thought watching it again I would understand more. I'm still no the wiser really though. To be fair, the first time I watched it was ages ago, but did most of you work it out on your own? I always think of myself as quite an intelligent movie-watcher, but I feel stupid now that I can't be sure who is who.

I think after reading this: http://archive.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/2001/10/23/mulholland_drive_analysis/index1.html  I will have a pretty definite idea of things, but I can't really make up my mind whether I should read it. I'm tempted to just keep on watching it until I've got it figured for myself.

 
3. Friday, September 5, 2008 2:26 PM
giospurs RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 5/22/2007
 Posts:811

 View Profile
 Send PM

I was just reading Roger Ebert's review of MD.

He says, "One of the scenes also contains the funniest example of pure logic in the history of sex scenes.". What is he referring to??
He also says, "you cannot hope to explain the mystery. There is no explanation. There may not even be a mystery." I know a lot of you would refute that.

 
4. Friday, September 5, 2008 11:15 PM
mr. silencio RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 12/20/2005
 Posts:1466

 View Profile
 Send PM
Well, yeah, I never liked reading others' interpretations and make them also my interpretation. Usually I watch a movie a lot of times and make my own interpretation. Ebert was right. There is nothing to be explained with a logic. You have to explain it using different tools.


"Did they scoff the whole damn Smörgåsbord?" (Audrey) 

"Gimme a donut!" (Coop)

 
5. Saturday, September 6, 2008 6:10 AM
giospurs RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 5/22/2007
 Posts:811

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:Well, yeah, I never liked reading others' interpretations and make them also my interpretation. Usually I watch a movie a lot of times and make my own interpretation. Ebert was right. There is nothing to be explained with a logic. You have to explain it using different tools.


 He didn't say that though, he said that you cannot explain it at all.

I think the 'funniest piece of logic in a sex scene' he was referring to is when Naomi Watts asks Laura Harring if she has ever done this before and Harring says "I don't know". Good line, but hardly hilarious.

 
6. Saturday, September 6, 2008 11:41 PM
mr. silencio RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 12/20/2005
 Posts:1466

 View Profile
 Send PM
Right.


"Did they scoff the whole damn Smörgåsbord?" (Audrey) 

"Gimme a donut!" (Coop)

 
7. Sunday, September 7, 2008 12:05 PM
12rainbow RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 12/19/2005
 Posts:4953

 View Profile
 Send PM
The first time I saw MD I had to stifle my laughter a bunch of times. Mike Anderson was sitting right next to me, too. Betty made me uncomfortable she was so corny, but I guess that was what DL was going for. Like the room service waiter.  You want to shake the person and say "wake up!"  There's a reason for that in this movie! 

 
8. Sunday, September 7, 2008 5:15 PM
giospurs RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 5/22/2007
 Posts:811

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:The first time I saw MD I had to stifle my laughter a bunch of times. Mike Anderson was sitting right next to me, too. Betty made me uncomfortable she was so corny, but I guess that was what DL was going for. Like the room service waiter.  You want to shake the person and say "wake up!"  There's a reason for that in this movie! 


 When did you have Mike Anderson sitting next to you?

Betty definitely gives off an air of naievety, and a giddy kind of constant joyousness but I never thought she was 'corny'. I think she's definitely a likable character (when we think she's actually Betty anyway).

 
9. Sunday, September 7, 2008 6:48 PM
Rigpa RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 9/1/2008
 Posts:483

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:

Okay, so... Here are some little but curious new thoughts and things I got with my umpteenth viewing of Mulholland Dr. last night.

- In the car accident scene, there is a bit elaborated editing on the point where the smoke starts scattering around. The same kind of shots & editing returns in the finale, right after Diane shoots herself.

- It is quite evident to me that the elderly couple are not Diane's relatives. In the dinner party scene she only talks about an aunt. There are no men in the picture. Those two people, who first appear for a brief and hazy moment at the end of the opening sequence with the jitterbug contest, are beside her head. They first appear as a white, unfocused blob and the three of them are a whole thing, you know... So, I take that Lynch thought those two characters as some representatives of her own self. It's her brain, that sets in motion a dream, that that will eventually release them again at the end, out of the blue box, to drive Diane to the suicidal bed. They are the Giant and the Little man from another place of Mulholland Dr.. They are the ones that keep custody of her own mental processes. They are no grandparents or uncle & auntie.

Also, the parallel between this and Twin Peaks seems prettynatural since in the Lodge they like to play little scary tricks and games, illusions and exchanges of persona... Just like the dream in Diane's mind likes making fun of her/us...

Diane's mind has her own dwellers and it's no surprise that Mike Anderson (the little man) appears again in the role of Mr. Roque

Have you ever thought of the film in these terms? 

As to the elderly couple being no uncle and auntie, at the beginning, when they seem to be seeing off Betty at the airport, there is a moment when the elderly couple are driving off in a taxi, and the woman has this sort of wild look on her face, and she whacks the man's knee a few times, forcefully.  It felt sinister and ominous to me, like the "auntie" was excited to be sending Betty off on her road to destruction.
 


"I'm talking about seeing beyond fear, Roger.  About looking at the world with love."
 
10. Monday, September 8, 2008 3:21 AM
Simbabbad RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 9/7/2008
 Posts:28

 View Profile
 Send PM

 We see the old couple at the beginning of the film, as Betty just steps out of the airport. She chatted with them in an obviously very warm way, and when they're into the cab they look overly happy (to the point it's vaguely sinister). So it's a very positive, reassuring image, but vaguely seems too positive and too reassuring.

 So in my opinion, when they chase her at the end, they represent the whole first part of the film, how Diane would have wished things would have turned out with "Rita" being a harmless doll in her power, her being an excellent actress etc. : overly positive.

 So I think the couple is here to illustrate the gap between what she wished for and what she did (kill "Rita"), with all the horror and guilt and irony it represents.

 I don't think the characters themselves mean much.

 
11. Monday, September 8, 2008 3:56 AM
giospurs RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 5/22/2007
 Posts:811

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:

 We see the old couple at the beginning of the film, as Betty just steps out of the airport. She chatted with them in an obviously very warm way, and when they're into the cab they look overly happy (to the point it's vaguely sinister). So it's a very positive, reassuring image, but vaguely seems too positive and too reassuring.

 So in my opinion, when they chase her at the end, they represent the whole first part of the film, how Diane would have wished things would have turned out with "Rita" being a harmless doll in her power, her being an excellent actress etc. : overly positive.

 So I think the couple is here to illustrate the gap between what she wished for and what she did (kill "Rita"), with all the horror and guilt and irony it represents.

 I don't think the characters themselves mean much.

Yeah, the only thing is that the couple when driving off seem obviously not good(and that is in the first part of the film) although perhaps with Betty's optimistic manner, she wouldn't have percieved this.
 

 
12. Monday, September 8, 2008 4:55 AM
Simbabbad RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 9/7/2008
 Posts:28

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE: Yeah, the only thing is that the couple when driving off seem obviously not good(and that is in the first part of the film) although perhaps with Betty's optimistic manner, she wouldn't have percieved this.
 

 I disagree. They really just look like they're very, very, very happy to be here. It's joy, but too much, which hints at the whole thing being artificial.

 Also, remember Lynch loves overly joyful faces (Lady Behind the Radiator in Eraserhead, Laura at the very end of Fire Walk with Me in the Lodge, etc.)

 
13. Monday, September 8, 2008 7:48 AM
giospurs RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 5/22/2007
 Posts:811

 View Profile
 Send PM

  

Good point

I think you're right.
 

 
14. Tuesday, September 9, 2008 10:54 AM
mr. silencio RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 12/20/2005
 Posts:1466

 View Profile
 Send PM
But nobody seemed to have stopped enough thinking about their actual first appearance in the jitterbug contest incipit sequence. There is no doubt they are the same couple, so since the movie takes place in Diane's mind, they must be something else, not just a couple that she meets on the plane. Did I make my point clear?


"Did they scoff the whole damn Smörgåsbord?" (Audrey) 

"Gimme a donut!" (Coop)

 
15. Tuesday, September 9, 2008 11:13 AM
Simbabbad RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 9/7/2008
 Posts:28

 View Profile
 Send PM

We really do see them ? Never noticed that.

Well, she could have met them there and made friend with them like she does in her dream in the plane. It would make sense. And if so, they represent her hopes when she went to LA, and therefore the first part of the movie as a whole (what she wished happened).

 
16. Wednesday, September 10, 2008 9:24 AM
mr. silencio RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 12/20/2005
 Posts:1466

 View Profile
 Send PM
You guys need to rewatch the jitterbug contest scene.


"Did they scoff the whole damn Smörgåsbord?" (Audrey) 

"Gimme a donut!" (Coop)

 
17. Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:33 AM
Sourdust RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 7/9/2008
 Posts:164

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:



I know Lynch wanted to end FWWM on a "hopeful" note, but I always thought there was something unintentionally creepy about Laura's laughter in this scene, especially in light of her earlier freak-out moment at Harolds Smith's house.


Silencio
 
18. Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:59 AM
Simbabbad RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 9/7/2008
 Posts:28

 View Profile
 Send PM

Lady behind the Radiator

I think it's from "Pretty as a Picture" :

Lynch : she's beautiful !

Interviewer : why ?

Lynch (as if it was obvious) : because she looks so happy.

 
19. Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:47 AM
mr. silencio RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 12/20/2005
 Posts:1466

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:
QUOTE:



I know Lynch wanted to end FWWM on a "hopeful" note, but I always thought there was something unintentionally creepy about Laura's laughter in this scene, especially in light of her earlier freak-out moment at Harolds Smith's house.

 

I always thought that it's kind of creepy indeed!


"Did they scoff the whole damn Smörgåsbord?" (Audrey) 

"Gimme a donut!" (Coop)

 
20. Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:10 AM
mr. silencio RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 12/20/2005
 Posts:1466

 View Profile
 Send PM

Here you can look back at the opening sequence and be aware of what I was trying to point out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Q15zSm_xo


"Did they scoff the whole damn Smörgåsbord?" (Audrey) 

"Gimme a donut!" (Coop)

 
21. Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:15 AM
mr. silencio RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 12/20/2005
 Posts:1466

 View Profile
 Send PM
I hate when these discussions are being left unresolved . Did anyone have the same attention for detail as me to notice those two people appearing beside Betty in the jitterbug sequence are the same elderly couple of the airport and in the end?


"Did they scoff the whole damn Smörgåsbord?" (Audrey) 

"Gimme a donut!" (Coop)

 
22. Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:46 PM
Rigpa RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 9/1/2008
 Posts:483

 View Profile
 Send PM
Yes, I did notice that we first see the elderly couple during the jitterbug scene.  It seems to me that this is a memory of an event that actually did happen, Diane winning a jitterbug contest.  So perhaps the couple are her parents, celebrating her victory with her.  We then seem to see her collapsing onto her bed, where she falls into a feverish dream.  At the end of the film, when we start to see Diane in her "real" iife, we notice lots of details and characters that recur as other characters and symbols in the dream, Betty life. So this makes me think that the elderly couple (perhaps her parents) in her fever/dream state take on a symbolic meaning...they become, in the airport scene, hyper-happy parents, and at the end, symbols of lost innocence hounding her to her death.


"I'm talking about seeing beyond fear, Roger.  About looking at the world with love."
 
23. Friday, November 28, 2008 4:11 AM
mr. silencio RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 12/20/2005
 Posts:1466

 View Profile
 Send PM
What we know from Diane, and to that extent we can't be sure if she's telling the plain truth by the way, is that back in Deep River, Ontario, Canada (where Diane's coming from) she had an aunt whose name could be unknown or may really be a Ruth, if her dream didn't camouflage it. The woman died at some time and left her some money. And the memory of her being the winner at the jitterbug contest triggered her the idea to go to Hollywood and try to become an actress. There, at the jitterbug contest, she probably had her most satisfying moment in her life and her parents or relatives were there. We see them clearly but just for a few seconds in and out of focus at the end of the first sequence. Diane, in the dream, associates these probable uncle figures to the elderly couple she meets on the plane and who salute her as she goes into Hollywood. Those two people, in the dream universe, aren't evidently related to her.

The aunt Ruth we see in the dream and her perfect life and house, the friendly recommendation handed to Mr. Wally Brown for young and naive Betty,  is all for show of course. This means, like Diane has a Betty and a waitress look-alike, like Camilla has a Rita and a blonde stand-in (Melissa George), like Coco is both Adam's mom and the manager at 1612 Havenhurst, Ruth, which is evidently a pillar in Diane's life (thus we are never really pleased to meet her,since she's dead) has Irene the old airport woman and the red-haired woman playing the aunt... and a halo of mystery surrounding her name of course.

The uncle is the missing link in the story of her relatives. Why didn't she mention him? Is he dead? Was he killed perhaps? Who knows. See, just for fun and without seriousness, similarities and references to the federal code scene where Lyl pops up in Fire walk with me "Cole said Lyl was his mother's sister's girl.... Now what's missing in that sentence? The uncle"...

And wasn't there an abusive uncle named Pooch in Wild at heart? Wasn't there a uncle Henry and an aunt Emma in the evergreen most-homaged movie The Wizard of Oz?

The audition with Woody Katz playing Chuck with her depicts a very "familiar" (take this term ambivalently) scene which configures pretty much, in my opinion, what could have happened in Diane's past life ("Dad's best friend goes to work" "Tell me where it hurts, baby"). Was she an orphan girl... or maybe she was sent away to her uncles in Canada to stay away from a dangerous father or step-father? Who knows.

 What we know is that all these characters are the dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind. Since the brain works with metaphors, weird and circular logics and the stuff we all know about, it's ideal to start the film out with Diane accompanied by two elderly people standing beside her (both their heads leaning towards Diane's at both its sides) and by making them appear again at the end to make her suicidal. Rewatch the first sequence and the way they are overlit and made out of focus creates a unique,undefinable mass that recalls the famous theories on the human brain, which has a feminine part (the right hemisphere) and a masculine part (the left hemisphere)

I know there is a mystical interpretation also that sees them as Angels in the beginning and Demons in the end, but I don't quite follow those kind of theories.


"Did they scoff the whole damn Smörgåsbord?" (Audrey) 

"Gimme a donut!" (Coop)

 
24. Saturday, December 6, 2008 11:47 AM
littleotik RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 7/9/2006
 Posts:169

 View Profile
 Send PM
The old couple are linked to her winning the jitterbug dance off. Maybe they are the judges or her dancing coaches, and they are mingling with in Dianes memories of a happy moment. As she lays her head on the red pillow and begins the dream the first half of the film unfolds, the couple reappear representing her hopeful starting point of encouragement as she arrives in Hollywood. They send her off as they may have in her real life at the jitterbug contest. Later on as the reappear in laughing mocking way possibly representing Dianes failures in choices twisting  the happy moments with fear, regret and ugliness.


twitter/ josephallenart 

josephallenart.com 

 
25. Saturday, December 6, 2008 4:15 PM
12rainbow RE: The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


 Member Since
 12/19/2005
 Posts:4953

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:The audition with Woody Katz playing Chuck with her depicts a very "familiar" (take this term ambivalently) scene which configures pretty much, in my opinion, what could have happened in Diane's past life ("Dad's best friend goes to work" "Tell me where it hurts, baby"). Was she an orphan girl... or maybe she was sent away to her uncles in Canada to stay away from a dangerous father or step-father? Who knows. 

  This molestation theory and the fixation on the couple's presence in the opening sequence has been on the Lost on Mulholland website for ages:

Here's a nice compilation. All of them work. 

 http://www.mulholland-drive.net/cast/elderly.htm

http://www.mulholland-drive.net/studies/jitterbug.htm

Some of the clues you could interpret as abuse are pretty convincing:

http://www.mulholland-drive.net/studies/sexualabuse.htm

 

 

New Topic | Post Reply Page 1 of 2 :: << | 1 | 2 | >>
David Lynch > The dwellers of Diane Selwyn's mind


Users viewing this Topic (1)
1 Guest


This page was generated in 172 ms.