What is your opinion of this storyline?  I know I may be nitpicking, but when TP first aired, I couldn't wait for this storyline to wrap up because it had hardly anything to do with the main TP mysteries anyway.  I couldn't understand Jean Renault when he spoke and I thought he was more of a stereotypical villian that I knew TP was much better than.  The power struggle over OEJ seemed like filler to me.  These days every TP moment has its charm big or small and I even appreciate Michael Parks more now, but this story was grounded in reality (opposite of my fave Black Lodge storyline). Do you think this story should have been omitted, expanded upon, perfect as is, etc.?

Jean is a transitory villain, more material than BOB, less evil that Windom.  I like the showdown at Dead Dog, and sympathize with Jean.  He's is a business where he has to kill people sometimes in order to keep his position on the food chain.  It's a hard life, he has to make hard decisions, and his bitterness toward Cooper is understandable. 

We learn a lot about the character of Cooper through the OEJ storyline, too.  When he's around, people die, and he struggles morally with that. 

Moreover, when Cooper came to Twin Peaks, he upset the light/dark balance of the town, and was punished for it in the end.  Who is who's nightmare?  That's always subjective

Jean is a transitory villain, more material than BOB, less evil that Windom.  I like the showdown at Dead Dog, and sympathize with Jean.  He's is a business where he has to kill people sometimes in order to keep his position on the food chain.  It's a hard life, he has to make hard decisions, and his bitterness toward Cooper is understandable. 

We learn a lot about the character of Cooper through the OEJ storyline, too.  When he's around, people die, and he struggles morally with that. 

Moreover, when Cooper came to Twin Peaks, he upset the light/dark balance of the town, and was punished for it in the end.  Who is who's nightmare?  That's always subjective

It's kind of a big stretch to sympathize with a cold-blooded killer, but I do understand Renault's bitterness towards Cooper for being associated with the "nightmare" that brought about Bernard and Jacques' deaths.
 

No one is 100% good or evil.  Isn't that what Twin Peaks is about? 

Who's to say Jean didn't struggle with his decisions?  What if he felt he had no other choice?  He had a record (we see his mug shot), so it's not like he could just drop everything and live the straight life.  I'd wager the father of the Renaults is to blame, they're all f*cked up.

He was willing to die as long as he took Cooper with him. I think it's beautiful.

One has to take responsibility for their own actions.  I wouldn't say Renault's murdering people are the acts of a "good" person.

Renault is a murderer, but he only targets his enemies for what he sees as a problem i.e. with cause. He does not murder ‘civilians’ or for sport or perversion. So, he gets very limited props for not being a complete human monster.

Geez 12, are you a defense attorney?

I didn't say he was good.  I just think the writers do a great job of making 3-dimensional people.  It's easy to make someone an evil cliche, or a innocent cliche.  All I'm saying is Jean is evil enough to be a villain, but not corny and over the top like BOB and Windom. 

Calling someone a "good" or "bad" person is pretty unhelpful because, as has been noted, it collapses a bunch of possible motives, influences, and impusles into a specious, subjective dichotomy.

But I digress...

I think the OEJ segment is just fine.  It was great when it had Audrey in it, less so when it was left up to Hank and Ernie... but the conversation at dead dog farm really rectifies the whole thing.  If you're looking to axe parts of the show, there are much more worthy candidates for oblivion.  Keep it.  Kill Evelyn.  :)

I don't think it was the worst storyline by an means - I just felt like when this started in Season 2 the writers were just scrambling for something to stretch the overall TP story out to 22 episode length and still comes across as filler in comparison to Twin Peaks overall mysteries.  The part where Coop rescues Audrey was great - I'm referring to the Season 2 part with Renault, Ernie, and Hank, etc.  Ernie sucked ass.

Talking of Season 2 filler, what would you think of a re-edited Season 2 (or second part of season 2), cut down to the main plot. You know, cutting out Evelyn/Little Nicky, just a lot of the acknowledged poor storylines from Season 2. I know some of you would hate the idea, but I've seen Season 2 twice now, and I know there's some great stuff in there, but I can't be bothered to watch a lot of it again. Maybe I'll just have to watch it with the fast-forward button to hand.

Talking of Season 2 filler, what would you think of a re-edited Season 2 (or second part of season 2), cut down to the main plot. You know, cutting out Evelyn/Little Nicky, just a lot of the acknowledged poor storylines from Season 2. I know some of you would hate the idea, but I've seen Season 2 twice now, and I know there's some great stuff in there, but I can't be bothered to watch a lot of it again. Maybe I'll just have to watch it with the fast-forward button to hand.

 That would be cool if someone had the capability and time to make a fan edit.  It would be fun to watch just to see what it would feel like.  I'm all for it!

What would be missing from the Fan Edit?

Evelyn and James

Little Nicky

Super Nadine

Weasel Cam

You're My Daddy!

Civil War Ben

What else?

Fun?

Hopefully no one picks the One Eyed Jacks/Jean Renault storyline.  You need it to get Coop off the hook for going into Canada to get Audrey.  And you need it cause it is one of the first times we see Coop as a vulnerable, falliable person.  The stuff about him possibly bringing the nightmare to Peaks is really great.

Making a fan edit like this seems lame though.  Don't you have a chapter forward button on your dvd player?  Sometimes you need the bad to realize the good.

I just popped in here to say Civil War Ben has to stay.

I just popped in here to say Civil War Ben has to stay.

 I liked the Civil War miniatures set Ben had - frakkin' awesome.  I also liked the Ken Burns PBS Civil War series at the time.  But the Diane Keaton segment of the Civil War storyline definitely should go.

I just popped in here to say Civil War Ben has to stay.

 I liked the Civil War miniatures set Ben had - frakkin' awesome.  I also liked the Ken Burns PBS Civil War series at the time.  But the Diane Keaton segment of the Civil War storyline definitely should go.
 It's not the worst part of Season 2 but it would definitely be one for the chop, for me. I just think it demeans Ben Horne as a character. In Season 1, he was this important, slightly sinister guy, someone who had respect. I think a plot where he goes insane, could have been good, but as long as it had a dark edge, not him playing games with miniature figures.

I think the OEJ stories were okay, as long as they weren't treated like filler. They did relate to Twin Peaks and Laura. I disagree about Ernie, I liked his character. I liked it being rooted in reality too. I think that's what Twin Peaks needed. Devoting a plot to the Black Lodge (and discovering it), looking back, was not a good idea. It was stupid to bring the Black Lodge itself into reality, rather than it being related specifically to Cooper and dreaming, the subconscious. Having a map to locate it and the Owl Cave thing was pretty silly wasn't it!?

I wasn't happy with the Civil War storyline and Ben though. Seemed a bit feeble. By that point the second season was dragging.