Anyone else here a fan of Joss Whedon? He's created some of the best television to come along in the last 10 years or so. From the show that started it all, Buffy The Vampire Slayer (based somewhat on the movie, which didn't really turn out the way Joss envisioned it) to it's spinoff Angel, through the thrilling space western Firefly (and the feature film sequel Serenity) right up to his current show Dollhouse. Personally, I can't get enough of his stuff. The only thing on television that ever meant as much to me as Twin Peaks was Buffy and Angel. If there are other Whedon fans here, this is the place for you.

What's your favorite Whedon show? What's your favorite episode of your favorite Whedon show? Who's the best character? The best villain? Do you think Dollhouse measures up to Joss' usual standard, or is it still finding it's footing? Do you read the comics? Did you enjoy Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog? Talk about it here. This is the place for all things Whedon.

Thanks to coolspringsj for convincing me to do this.  

All of the above. I tuned out during the middle seasons of Angel, and Dollhouse is very uneven, but as long as Whedon is creating things, I'll be checking them out. I was hoping Serenity would be his step to bigger and better silver screen outings, but television seems to be his domain (though DH's mediocre ratings speak against that).

Speaking of DH, the mythology has hooked me even when the standalone stories leave me cold. It's the only hour-long that I tune into regularly these days.

My take on Dollhouse is that, like Buffy and Angel before it, the plan is to bring in some status-quo changing twist somewhere at the end of Season 1 or the first half of Season 2. If you look at the first season and a half of Buffy, even though those shows are a lot of fun, there's very little to indicate that the show was going to become as special as it was. Then midway through Season 2 good guy Angel does a complete 180 and becomes the bad guy. It was around that point that I started to realize that there was more going on in the show than a hot girl killing monsters and making jokes. Season 1 of Angel is even less impressive, but in the season finale they resurrected Darla and introduced the Shanshu Prophecy. Two things that set up events that carried right through to the end of the show in Season 5.

So the question with Dollhouse is: Will FOX stick with it long enough for Joss to start playing with all the pieces he's set up? Given their abysmal treatment of Firefly, my guess would be no, which is a shame. I really think Joss would do better with one of the cable channels. They seem to have a little more patience with a new show and actually *gasp!* support their own shows. If FOX axes Dollhouse, maybe it could picked up by USA or something?

I have seen zero episodes of Dollhouse.  I figured it would get cancelled real quick.

I love Buffy.  If you can get past the first season (Scream Lite), you'll start to realize how special of a show this really is.  I look at Angel as a kind of parallel continuation of BtVS as part of the same universe.

I liked Firefly, but not as much as the whackos on the net who look at it as a martyr.  Nathan Fillion is cool.  I didn't think Summer Glau was hot until Terminator and Jewel Staite is a cutie.

Charisma Carpenter is a 10.  She was a former San Diego Chargers cheerleader, go figure.

My favorite season of Buffy is probably Season 5, but it is so, so sad.  Breaks my heart. Long live the Knights of Byzantium!

Probably next would be Season 3 with the whole Faith/Mayor plot.  Surprisingly, I enjoyed the much maligned Season 4 college season.  It has one of my favorite episodes Hush which I think even non-Buffy fans would enjoy.

Do you watch this show over and over on DVD?  I have seen it multiple times and I amazed at the depth of a show that deals with such extraordinary, supernatural beings.

It's embarassing how much I rewatch Buffy and Angel on DVD. I have every season of both shows and I watch them one or two a night (most nights, anyway) from the first BTVS episode to the last Angel episode. Then I take a break for acouple of weeks and start again.

My favorite Buffy seasons are Season 6 (Once More With Feeling, Buffy and Spike get togther in a somewhat twisted relationship and Dark Willow) and Season 3 (the Mayor ruled!). Season 4's biggest problem is that it seems like the creators spent half the season trying to figure out what the show was supposed to be about after the main characters graduated from high school. it's kind of all over the place. Some truly great episodes, though. You already mentioned Hush, but I also love Who Are You (Faith walking around in Buffy's body), Something Blue (when Willow accidentally gains the power to make things happen just by saying it), A New Man (when Giles gets turned into a demon) and the much-maligned Restless (the all-dream episode).

I thought Restless was critically acclaimed.  You gotta love the red drapes in it!  Oh, and the cheese man.

That's hilarious you watch them that constantly.  I should do the same.  I think a lot of girls like Season 2 with the Buffy/Angel romance Romeo and Juliet style, but I guess since I'm a dude and macho I didn't pick that as my favorite season.  Spike is very, very funny.  I like when he hangs out over at Giles place (he loves his Weetabix).

for a guy with such a killer mind for concepts, mood, setting, and character, he sure sucks at dialogue. i can't listen to it, it's like nails on a chalkboard to me. which sucks, because firefly seems so damn cool. :(

I thought Restless was critically acclaimed.  You gotta love the red drapes in it!  Oh, and the cheese man.

 The critics loved it, but I've heard a lot of fans hate it, especially since it was the season finale. i guess a lot of them were looking for the usual Big Fight With The Bad Guy.

Yeah, how about those drapes, huh? Seems to me I've seen those before.  

I agree about the Buffy/Angel thing in general. Buffy and Spike were much more interesting. Angel's a great character, but their romance didn't get interesting until he killed Willow's fish.

Cheese-Man rules. "I wear the cheese. The cheese does not wear me."     

I love the idea of each season is one little standalone story. 

Season 1 Master

Season 2 Bad Angel/Spike/Dru

Season 3 Faith/Mayor

Season 4 Adam/The Initiative

Season 5 Glory

Season 6 Evil Willow

Season 7 The First

You can just pick up a random season and watch it from beginning to end (obviously after you have seen the entire series straight through at least once).

for a guy with such a killer mind for concepts, mood, setting, and character, he sure sucks at dialogue. i can't listen to it, it's like nails on a chalkboard to me. which sucks, because firefly seems so damn cool. :(

 That's surprising to hear, because dialogue is usually considered to be one of the places where Whedon excels. I can see how it might be annoying if you're not into it, though, because it's very stylized and not the way real people talk. I've heard the same complaint about Tarantino. Some people can't stand his dialogue, either because it seems to "written". i love it, though.

Have you actually seen Firefly, or have you been avoiding it? Because it's a completely different style of dialogue than Buffy and Angel, so I wouldn't want you to miss out because you think it's the same thing.

coolspringsj, I never looked at the different seasons that way, but you're right. Each one is like a little novel for television. You can watch them alone and get a great story, or put them all together and see the bigger picture.

By the way, have you ever seen this? It's a demo for what would have been a Buffy Animated series, but the project fell apart and now it's just a curiosity. I think it's pretty good, it really captures the vibe of the early episodes and adds a sort of Batman: The Animated Series aesthetic. The only thing that doesn't work for me is Buffy's voice. If my information is correct, Sarah Michelle Gellar is the only one who passed on doing voice work (if you listen it's pretty obvious that that's Alyson Hannigan as Willow and Nicholas Brendon as Xander. At first, I didn't think that was Anthony Stewart Head as Giles, but as he goes along he becomes more recognizable). Thoughts?

for a guy with such a killer mind for concepts, mood, setting, and character, he sure sucks at dialogue. i can't listen to it, it's like nails on a chalkboard to me. which sucks, because firefly seems so damn cool. :(

 That's surprising to hear, because dialogue is usually considered to be one of the places where Whedon excels. I can see how it might be annoying if you're not into it, though, because it's very stylized and not the way real people talk. I've heard the same complaint about Tarantino. Some people can't stand his dialogue, either because it seems to "written". i love it, though.

Have you actually seen Firefly, or have you been avoiding it? Because it's a completely different style of dialogue than Buffy and Angel, so I wouldn't want you to miss out because you think it's the same thing.

 yeah i mean his dialogue isn't objectively terrible, it's just like you said very "written" and not in a way that i personally enjoy.

i've watched a few episodes of firefly, it's got a lot of things i like but i cannot stand the way the characters talk.  it reminds me of those kids in middle school who are all basically having a "whos the quirkiest" contast with every word they say.

the last one i watched involved them finding a ship that had been attacked by reavers, then the federation (or whatever they are called) find them and goes apeshit looking for psycho girl and doctor brother. i nearly turned it off in the first 30 seconds though when they were all playing basketball and some kind of alert sounds and the pilot is all "oh man who's in charge of flying this thing?!?.....oh....right....me!" which is the fucking second-lowest* form of humor ever devised by man, and he's so fucking smug and pleased with himself over his terrible little bon mot. thankfully the episode pulled it together after that, to some degree.

*the all-time worst is "well, at least X didn't happen! *x happens* *laugh track* *nefud dies a little more inside*

*the all-time worst is "well, at least X didn't happen! *x happens* *laugh track* *nefud dies a little more inside*

And its awful sibling: "there is no way in hell that I'm wearing a dress!" *cut to person wearing a dress*

*the all-time worst is "well, at least X didn't happen! *x happens* *laugh track* *nefud dies a little more inside*

And its awful sibling: "there is no way in hell that I'm wearing a dress!" *cut to person wearing a dress*

 yeah i mean that's basically the same joke, both are beyond awful. like, below truck nutz and dutch ovens

i nearly turned it off in the first 30 seconds though when they were all playing basketball and some kind of alert sounds and the pilot is all "oh man who's in charge of flying this thing?!?.....oh....right....me!" which is the fucking second-lowest* form of humor ever devised by man, and he's so fucking smug and pleased with himself over his terrible little bon mot.

Dollhouse has a character who tells these kind of jokes, with the twist being that he's a borderline sociopathic manchild that none of the other characters find amusing. An interesting little riff on the Xander/Wash archetype that pops up in Whedon's shows.

The dialogue works for me when it's delivered correctly. It's that slight subversion of what you expect a person to say.

for a guy with such a killer mind for concepts, mood, setting, and character, he sure sucks at dialogue. i can't listen to it, it's like nails on a chalkboard to me. which sucks, because firefly seems so damn cool. :(

 That's surprising to hear, because dialogue is usually considered to be one of the places where Whedon excels. I can see how it might be annoying if you're not into it, though, because it's very stylized and not the way real people talk. I've heard the same complaint about Tarantino. Some people can't stand his dialogue, either because it seems to "written". i love it, though.

Have you actually seen Firefly, or have you been avoiding it? Because it's a completely different style of dialogue than Buffy and Angel, so I wouldn't want you to miss out because you think it's the same thing.

 yeah i mean his dialogue isn't objectively terrible, it's just like you said very "written" and not in a way that i personally enjoy.

i've watched a few episodes of firefly, it's got a lot of things i like but i cannot stand the way the characters talk.  it reminds me of those kids in middle school who are all basically having a "whos the quirkiest" contast with every word they say.

the last one i watched involved them finding a ship that had been attacked by reavers, then the federation (or whatever they are called) find them and goes apeshit looking for psycho girl and doctor brother. i nearly turned it off in the first 30 seconds though when they were all playing basketball and some kind of alert sounds and the pilot is all "oh man who's in charge of flying this thing?!?.....oh....right....me!" which is the fucking second-lowest* form of humor ever devised by man, and he's so fucking smug and pleased with himself over his terrible little bon mot. thankfully the episode pulled it together after that, to some degree.

*the all-time worst is "well, at least X didn't happen! *x happens* *laugh track* *nefud dies a little more inside*

Fair enough, at least you gave it a chance. Maybe I'm being too much of a fanboy, but sometimes I think lines like the one you pointed out are put in there purposely to be annoying. Because, let's face it, sometimes guys like Wash and Xander WOULD be annoying.
 

Fair enough, at least you gave it a chance. Maybe I'm being too much of a fanboy, but sometimes I think lines like the one you pointed out are put in there purposely to be annoying. Because, let's face it, sometimes guys like Wash and Xander WOULD be annoying.
 

 if whedon is actually trying to make them irksome, then fine. he's operating on a whole level i never even gave him credit for.

Whedon's dialogue is actually one of his strongest points or trademarks.  He has a knack for creating witty banter amongst hip young folks.

 if whedon is actually trying to make them irksome, then fine. he's operating on a whole level i never even gave him credit for.

Writing annoying dialogue for an annoying character is much more forgivable than something like intentionally making something bad. Like for instance Southland Tales. Even the people who liked that movie admit it's bad, but that's the point man, it's meant to be bad, that why it's so good.
While I will say that if you make a movie that is intentionally bad, you are a douchebag.

And the dialogue in Death Proof was terrible, but not because it seemed too "written".

Mr. Bloody, what is your favorite Buffy season and why?  I'm thinking about going on a mini-Buffy marathon.

EDIT - Oops, I just saw above you mentioned Season 6.  That's interesting because that is one of the most criticized seasons for being too dark and depressing and Buffy being with Spike.  I love Spike, but I think Buffy was better off with Angel. Spike is an awesome character, but I wish they would have just left him fawning over Buffy secretly (publicly hating her) and never actually having a relationship with her.

Mr. Bloody, what is your favorite Buffy season and why?  I'm thinking about going on a mini-Buffy marathon.

EDIT - Oops, I just saw above you mentioned Season 6.  That's interesting because that is one of the most criticized seasons for being too dark and depressing and Buffy being with Spike.  I love Spike, but I think Buffy was better off with Angel. Spike is an awesome character, but I wish they would have just left him fawning over Buffy secretly (publicly hating her) and never actually having a relationship with her.

 Yeah, I know that Season 6 was way too dark for a lot of people, but I think that's exactly what I like about it. It was the season where the characters finally grew up and had to face the world on their own...and the world kicked their ass. That's why Tara's death was so effective, IMO. She wasn't killed by some vampire or hell-god, she was killed by an impotent little loser with a gun. Plus, I just love the whole Willow/Tara thing in S6. When you re-watch it knowing how it's all going to turn out it just takes on an air of such tragedy. Plus, I always love seeing the good guys take a bad turn (like Angel in S2), and watching sweet, shy, innocent little Willow turn into a raving lunatic is just too much fun for words.

I had heard so many bad things about Season 6 before I saw it, I had low expectations and it pleasantly surprised me.  I loved Evil Willow and the drug/magic metaphor.  Obviously OMWF and its soundtrack.  The trio did have some funny lines too, especially all of the geek references. 

I am still cracking up how you said you watch one or two every night all the way through the series and then start the cycle over in a couple of weeks.  That's hardcore dedication and I love it!

I haven't seen Angel as repeatedly as BtVS.  BtVS - 4 stars, Angel 3 stars IMO.

I had heard so many bad things about Season 6 before I saw it, I had low expectations and it pleasantly surprised me.  I loved Evil Willow and the drug/magic metaphor.  Obviously OMWF and its soundtrack.  The trio did have some funny lines too, especially all of the geek references. 

I am still cracking up how you said you watch one or two every night all the way through the series and then start the cycle over in a couple of weeks.  That's hardcore dedication and I love it!

I haven't seen Angel as repeatedly as BtVS.  BtVS - 4 stars, Angel 3 stars IMO.

 Three things I am obsessively nerdy about: David Lynch, Star Wars and Buffy/Angel. Lately my Buffy/Angel geekiness is the most prevalent. It's been 5 years (!) since Angel went off the air and 6 for Buffy, so I think full-on new episode withdrawal has finally set in.  

The first two seasons of Angel are really hit-and-miss. There's some great stuff in S2, but there's a lot of mediocre stuff, too. It wasn't until S3 that the show started to attain the same level of quality as Buffy. Seasons 3, 4 and 5 are amazing, IMO.

Season 6 was disappointing, not because it went to dark places, but because it seemed so forced. With the exception of OMWF, Whedon seemed to take a backseat to things (it's the only season in the run with an opening and finale he neither wrote nor directed). Dark Willow's finale storyline started out strong (running on pure rage from her murdered lover) and then seemed drawn out for the hell of it (turns out she's just a nerd who discovered drugs).

And don't get me started on dumb episodes like "Doublemeat Palace".

no-one, nooo-one writes wittier lololz banter dialogue (and i know it's not television, yeah yeah) than B M Bendis!!! Oh it's great in Avengers titles, every character in the heat of combat suddenly becomes a goddamn comedian, its wellll lolllzy