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1. Friday, February 17, 2006 12:11 PM
nuart Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq


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Watch this one and see what you think. I have no idea who this Saudi guy was before he Allahuakbarred into a US convoy in Iraq. Maybe he had a criminal record but it's probably not the case.

Ask yourself if maybe the loud cry of outrage that comes daily from many sources of Western media about Gitmo abuses -- Abu Ghraib abuses -- have contributed to the perceptions of an Abu Mu'awiya Al-Shimali. Sure, it's altogether possible in the land of state-controlled media and rampant conspiracy theorizing, that they'd invent the suitable rationale without the aid of the Western press and/or the Left. But who wants to be complicit in the smallest way to accomodating these sick acts of "revenge?" How many others are like him? How many others who, although not willing to pilot their own Jihad-mobile, might be happy to support those who would and help with the prep work? How many others might just root for him and others like him on the abbreviated road trip to Paradise. How many filmmakers might then want to make a movie about such characters -- this new genre of Shahid Buddy films, such as the Academy Award nominated "Paradise Now" -- and who, out of their desire for a neato story and awards, further feed the flame of Allahuaaaaakkkkkkkkbar!

Rather chilling. Rather commonplace. It's beginning to be a habit.

Read the text and then watch the video if you dare.

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD109506

 

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
2. Friday, February 17, 2006 12:44 PM
superducky RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq

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Watching this just really brings up all kinds of emotions. I don't know whether to be angry, sad or happy. Angry because there are still these extreme people out there who think that they are actually going to slow us down. Sad because they think they have to resort to this kind of thing, and happy  because there is one less extremist out there


Kelly

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3. Friday, February 17, 2006 12:57 PM
wowBOBwow RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq


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Ok, so help me understand what you're alluding to here. Are you suggesting that diligent reporting of our abuses is a larger motivation for terrorists than our heavy-handed military presenses, or our penchant for pumping cash into and taking sides in their various military skirmishes over the years? Or than the extreme fringe elements' basic and fundamental hatred for our culture and how we live? C'mon! What is your alternative? Set ourselves up as beyond reproach, admit and report nothing that is less than flattering? Do you believe in honest journalism and the importance of an informed voting public? I think that the animosity created by these factual reports is a necessary evil of a just and honest government. Hey I know, let's worry about NOT COMMITING these abuses in the first place!! You want to just blame and silence the messenger, which will do nothing more than ensure that our current administation will reform not a thing. I contend that the abuses Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib would have continued and possibly escalated unchecked without the much-needed pressure applied by the media. We should not be only selfishly and superficially concerned with our own safety and/or ruled by our fear to the point where we aren't even concerned with our own level of conduct anymore. If we look bad because of the terrible things we do, then we deserve to look bad until we can reform ourselves. We have a responsibility in this country to live up to the standard that we publicly tout to the world, and until we can meet that standard, we must understand that our actions will be reported, and that if the reporting of those actions ratchet up our level of danger a bit, then we have no one to blame but ourselves. In my view, more damaging than reports of abuse, is the blatant hypocracy that these abuses expose, showing definatively that we can talk a good game, but when the doors are closed we can be nearly as ruthless and dishonest as those we rail against.

 
4. Friday, February 17, 2006 1:12 PM
nuart RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq


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I've said what I think about the overwrought reporting of the Gitmo "Torture Chambers," Dave. I don't really want to do another recap. I probably should have let the video stand on its own without my commentary.

I wanted you all to see a close-up view of one lone terrorist heading out to commit his last earthly act and his stated reasons.  Okay, I was hoping you'd enjoy the musical attributes too, but basically it's a primary source which is always the most telling in understanding historical motivations.

Take from it that which you will. That's what I did. 

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
5. Friday, February 17, 2006 1:28 PM
wowBOBwow RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq


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Well, alright then, but I think we could accomplish something if you would answer my questions. I truly and geniunely would like to hear your alternative to a free media that publishes stories of merit, regardless of how it affects anyone's political fortune, by the ages old criteria that it is true and that the people have the right to know, which we damned well do. BTW, just because Newsweek retracted their Guantanamo story, does NOT make it untrue, especially in light of the fact that it did unfortunately spark some violence. I think it is a dangerous thing for our media to be cowed out of fear that their honest reporting of relevant stories will spark violence or increase danger. Again, shooting the messenger solves nothing, and is also shooting ourselves in the foot, as we need and heavily rely on the media to keep our politicians honest. I shudder to think how far our current leaders would go if they did not have to worry of being constantly kept in check by the media.

 
6. Friday, February 17, 2006 2:42 PM
nuart RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq


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Argh!  My message didn't come through.

What I wrote was that over on the Gitmo thread you will find answers to your questions, Dave. 

I really believe the Suicide Attack deserves to be a pristine thread.

Susan 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
7. Friday, February 17, 2006 2:51 PM
Raymond RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq


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WowBobWow said:

 "BTW, just because Newsweek retracted their Guantanamo story, does NOT make it untrue, especially in light of the fact that it did unfortunately spark some violence."

That is not true -the story was false.  Interesting that you remember it that way.

"How did NEWSWEEK get its facts wrong? And how did the story feed into serious international unrest? While continuing to report events on the ground, NEWSWEEK interviewed government officials, diplomats and its own staffers, and reconstructed this narrative of events:" by  Newsweek  May 23rd 2005 issue

 
8. Friday, February 17, 2006 2:51 PM
nuart RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq


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Old legal tricksterism. Prove a negative false.

ie. OJ Simpson's son COULD have committed those murders. Just because he wasn't charged, doesn't mean he didn't do it.

YES, BUT THERE'S NO EVIDENCE TO MAKE THE CASE! There's no evidence to make the case that Dick Cheney's shooting victim is dead and a lookalike is going forth as Harry Whittington but you could as easily say, well, it coulda happened.

All things under the sun are POSSIBLE. Only some are LIKELY. Fewer still are TRUE.  Without good solid evidence the rest is INNUENDO, SPECULATION and I daresay, MENTAL MASTURBATION.

ie. Maybe it was a missile that struck the Pentagon.

ie. Those voting machines coulda been hacked by Republican operatives.

ie. Vince Foster may have been murdered and not really a suicide.

 

Susan, breaking the sanctity of the Martyrdom Operation video thread


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
9. Friday, February 17, 2006 3:05 PM
jordan RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq

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Plus just because someone said somethign happened doesn't mean it happened.

And just because someone said something didn't happen doesn't mean it didn't happen.

and just because someone said something didn't happen doesn't mean it did happen.  

And just because somone didn't say anything doesn't mean that something didn't happen. 

and just because someone didn't say anything doesn't mean that something did happen.  


Jordan .

 
10. Friday, February 17, 2006 3:15 PM
superducky RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq

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LOL...

say that again 3 times fast. 


Kelly

How Do You Live Your Dash?

Check out the Kids' blogs:
The CaleBlog and the Zoe Blog

 
11. Friday, February 17, 2006 5:03 PM
wowBOBwow RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq


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Damn, you guys work in packs! This old lone wolf usually has to go it alone, for the most part. I'm not saying that the Newsweek story was true either, just that retraction does not always equal untrue. I have not seen any definitive evidence that the story was conclusively proven to be false, just that some doubt was shed. Now, that is not to say that the story wasn't disprooved and I missed it, that's certainly possible. If any of you guys have anything definitive on this, I appreciate if you could share it, as I am very interested in this story and am now wondering if I may have missed something.

 
12. Friday, February 17, 2006 6:04 PM
nuart RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq


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Couple things since you infidels are sullying my Martyrdom Operation thread with folderol.

1. I would not have trouble believing that a Koran was defiled, torn up, urinated on or stepped on at some point even though the Newsweek story was NOT based on any factual information and hence, was NOT true.

2. I care very little about it because I don't think holding the Koran with gloved right hands as opposed to "abusing" the US published, US issued holy books is likely to elicit any greater Muslim regard for the US . BUT, the world being what it is today, I'd agree it makes sense for the US to take these additional steps (which is policy and which they do) to safeguard the prison guards. I think needless inflammatory actions could generate unnecessary wrath within our men and women, whom I'd like to remain serene. But would I care otherwise if the occasional Koran was trampled or soiled? No.

3. The military, on the other hand, DOES care about respecting the religion of their prisoners. I understand why that is. It's just another example of how great is the respect with which these Gitmo crybabies are treated and the depths necessary to plumb to find some kind of a complaint on the part of their Western sob sisters and brothers.

Now then. Here we are discussing:

Rumors of KORAN DESECRATION (very small deal)

but NOT

Videotaped Happy Suicide Bomber blowing up our guys. (VERY LARGE DEAL)

 

What was the reason Abu Mu'awiya gave for his murderous streak? The love of a mythical woman, Fatima, who may or may not have existed at all, but whom Abu M never met though he felt sure Allah would make the head-basher his bride after he committed suicide murdering Americans.

Think about it, Dave. Think about where you'd rather take this conversation and why that might be. I'm thinking it's just a little more comfie to imagine that it is the big bad Bushies who have whipped up an international angry Muslim mob so it's better to direct our rage toward the White House. That way, it's easier to imagine that maybe in a couple of years, if and when a Dem is in the White House, Europe and the Muslims will love us again and we can all live in peaceful harmony.

But imagining that Bush and his "cronies" may in fact be spot on about the international Islamist threat would mean (gasp yourself!) that it will continue even with Bush out of office. If we go with the first case scenario, it's far more pleasant to simply assume our worst threats come from Bush since he is a lame duck with a rapidly diminishing shelf life. If we go with that scenario, it behooves us to accept sources like the UN. And hey, unless you're a real far out leftie, you don't have to worry that a Bush official will cut off your head.  There's solace in that little fact.

Ah, I wonder how much validity you'd give to a critical report done on the Democratic convention if it was written by a reporter who wouldn't even accept an invitation to attend. 


Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
13. Friday, February 17, 2006 7:06 PM
wowBOBwow RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq


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You can be as snide and dismissive of my viewpoints as you would like, but I assure you that I don't form them on a whim, or because I have an "irrational" dislike of Bush (I guess the majority of our nation must now be "irrational" as well). I actually find it somewhat insulting and very telling that you feel the need to define my supposed reasons for my views as so foolhearty and simplistic. I am not going to be bothered with listing, again, the nine foot laundry list of real and serious grievances that myself and millions of others share. We did not dream them up, as a matter of fact most of them are now being officially investigated. What the hell is irrational about that? Would Fitzgerald be indicting Scooter Libby and spending so much time and money investigating the CIA leak if our grievances are so irrational? Would the NSA scandal be being so closely investigated if our fears and mistrust of Bush regarding it are irrational? Is Arlen Specter irrational, too? Would we be investigating the Katrina debacle so closely if mine and others grievances regarding it are so irrational? Do you even live on this planet? Whatever you believe, and whomever you support, calling the numerous greivances against Bush being currently, officially, and impartially investigated as "irrational" is completely asinine and out of touch with reality. Why is Bush being so investigated for so many things? Because I'm irrational? WTF!! What would he have to do for my mistrust and dislike to become rational in your eyes, eat a baby on live T.V.? I mean really, you may feel that Bush is innocent on all counts, but don't call me irrational for calling it like I and the majority of Americans now see it. Also, believe me, you will get no argument from me that the extreme and evil elements prevalent within the Muslim community will not go away with a Democrat in office, it's a foolish thing for you to even suggest that I would think. Yes, I know that this is a long standing problem, but I do believe that Bush has done nothing but throw gasoline on the fire with his foolish, heavy-handed, drugstore cowboy approach to the problems of the region. I am not going to be able take you seriously if you cannot refrain from trying to boil my views down to such foolish and unsophisticated terms as beleiving that Bush is the root and cause of all problems. I have never said this, and am in fact too intelligent to see things so childishly. If you must try to dumb down my views everytime the water gets a little choppy, I am going to call you on it and go to any length to show how sad and disingenuous of a debating tactic this is. I think you know damned well by now that I am too sophisticated in my thinking to just hate Bush and blame him with no rational or valid reason behind it, and if you persist in twisting my reasoning, you are merely deluding yourself for your own comfort.

 
14. Friday, February 17, 2006 7:42 PM
nuart RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq


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“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
15. Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:57 AM
nuart RE: Watch a Suicide Attack in Iraq


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Funny thing happened last night when I attempted to post while using Safari rather than Foxfire. Nothing appeared. What I had typed that didn't come through was.

"How about that suicide attack video"

 

QUOTE: I actually find it somewhat insulting and very telling that you feel the need to define my supposed reasons for my views as so foolhearty and simplistic.


Fine. Be that way.

Did I get insulted when you told me that I do not want a free honest press or an informed voting population, Dave?

No. I answered you to the best of my ability.

Did I get insulted when you said I only want to blame and shoot the messenger?

No. Because I've got crococile skin. Something I'm working to remedy but have not found the best body lotions. It may just be age related, though.

If you read CAREFULLY what I wrote, there's always a distinction made between you, Dave, the press, the generalized "left" and even Michael Moorish types. Maybe you're leaping into one of those group assignations. Really, it would be a lot easier to have these conversations if they didn't have to become about how offended we are along the way. I try to be nice. I do. But it's quite obvious when two people have completely opposite views on a subject that each will assume the other is missing the appropriate information to see it their way. How we GUESS what the best explanation is for the other's failure to see the light is obviously not going to be something we agree on either. So bloody what? That's a given. If you would like greater delicacy from me, maybe a code, like CD (calm down) or TH (that hurt) is in order. I could live with that so we then don't need to further avoid the topic at hand.


Is Arlen Specter irrational, too?

In some ways, yes, of course he is. He's been going through serious health problems and he's no spring chicken so I'm not discounting those possible factors. But Arlen Specter lost it for me several decades ago first with the single bullet theory and next, while a defense attorney in Philadelphia, with the securing of bail for his murderer client, Ira Einhorn, who then hightailed it to France, where he was allowed to live for years, before coming back and being imprisoned for the murder he committed all those years ago.

Imo, Arlen Specter has never lost his defense attorney's mentality which I would proclaim is a flawed and irrational at its base. An advocate for a criminal defendant is required to use every legal technique possible to convince a jury that the prosecution COULD be wrong. When the prosecution USUALLY isn't wrong. THAT'S GOOD AND FINE AND I'M GLAD IT IS THAT WAY. However, years of thinking backward and trying to force the other side to prove the truth, makes, imo, for a muddied perception. (I refuse to answer lawyer bashing charges on my now totally and permanently mucked up SUICIDE ATTACK IN IRAQ thread. If you want to talk about that, start a new thread and I'm in.)

Do you even live on this planet? Whatever you believe, and whomever you support, calling the numerous greivances against Bush being currently, officially, and impartially investigated as "irrational" is completely asinine and out of touch with reality. Why is Bush being so investigated for so many things? Because I'm irrational? WTF!!

Yes. Firmly situated on Planet Earth even if I live in close proximity to that great sink hole of logic known as Hollywood and environs.

Do I take offense by the suggestion that I'm "completely asinine and out of touch with reality?" No way. You forget that discussions that meander along these lines are par for the course in my 'hood. Water off a duck's back.

For now, I'm going to end this response, and only add that this was supposed to be a thread on A SUICIDE ATTACK IN IRAQ. (Did I mention that?) And I'll leave it at that, assuming you have no thoughts you'd like to share on that subject.

Susan





     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 

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