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1. Saturday, June 13, 2009 9:12 AM
nuart And the Winner is.....


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Ahmadinejad!

In a landslide with 62% of the vote. 

What a surprise it was especially after the speech in Cairo.  What now? 

So was it fixed? 

...or...

Was there a silent majority who wanted to maintain the current status quo?

Does it matter who's the figurehead president of Iran anyway?

Interesting.

 

Susan

 

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
2. Monday, June 15, 2009 5:08 PM
nuart RE: And the Winner is.....


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Okay, this thread is not about Israel, but isn't there another single country in the Middle East we find worthy of discussion?  Here's an article from the WSJ about how Obama feels re/the election in Iran.

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

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3. Monday, June 15, 2009 6:41 PM
nuart RE: And the Winner is.....


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Christopher Hitchens weighs in.

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
4. Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:13 AM
nuart RE: And the Winner is.....


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Okay.  I see this is not an engaging story.  I get it.  This morning we learn that 8 have been reported killed in protests.  {{{Yawn.}}}

I'll branch out from the basic story line -- wannabe nuclear power in the Middle East, from whence most of Europe obtains the grease that oils their machinery, holds an "election" where lots of enthusiastic voters show up only to discover (alas!) the whole shebang was a sham-ang and the same guy is still in charge -- and into a different angle on what's happening over there. 

How about sex-change operations in Iran instead? It's an old article (2004) but still relevant.  What an interesting li'l corner of the world Iran is. Of course the story behind the story is to reinforce Ahmadinejad's declaration that there are no homosexuals in Iran.

photo of Austin Cline

Austin's Atheism Blog

By Austin Cline, About.com Guide to Atheism since 1998

Iran Allows Sex-Change Operations

Tuesday August 3, 2004
Iran is a curious country: it's ruled by conservative Islamic values and religious beliefs, but in some ways and at some times it appears almost liberal in comparison to other Muslim nations - and even when compared to America's Christian Right. Currently, they have not only allowed sex change operations, they are paying for them

The New York Times reports:

After decades of repression, the Islamic government is recognizing that some people want to change their sex, and allowing them to have operations and obtain new birth certificates. ... [T]hese days, Iran's Muslim clerics, who dominate the judiciary, are considerably better informed about transsexuality. Some clerics now even recommend sex-change operations to those who are troubled about their gender. The issue was discussed at a conference in Tehran in June that drew officials from other Persian Gulf countries.
One cleric, Muhammad Mehdi Kariminia, is writing his thesis on transsexuality at the religious seminary of Qum. "All the clerics and researchers at the seminary encouraged me to work on the subject," he said in an interview. "They said that my research can help change the social stigma attached to these people and clarify religious decrees on the matter.

People who can’t get the operations still suffer, and there is the problem that women have a lower status in society so those with the desire are looked down upon for that reason. The situation is by no means perfect — but can you imagine something like this happening in the context of America’s Christian Right? Qum is the center of Iranian theology and is dominated by very conservative clerics. If a thesis comes out of there, it must have at least the tacit approval of the highest levels of Iran’s religious orthodoxy. Can you imagine something like this coming from the Vatican or the Christian Coalition?

People who complain about Islam being incompatible with liberal values miss something important: Islam is conservative in different ways than Christianity, which means that any “incompatibility” will show up in different places and for different reasons. Islam doesn’t need to be worse, but it will be different. That leads to unexpected situations like this.

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
5. Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:28 AM
jordan RE: And the Winner is.....

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C'mon now, Susan, we're in in an elighten age where all countries have the right to nuclear power. And Alllahmahladujuliad won fair and square. He didn't steal or "create" an election victory, unlike you know who.

Seriously, probably fixed. Iran knew that 100% would look stupid (ala Saddam), so they came up with whatever number they liked best. Pulled it out of a turbin I suppose.


Jordan .

 
6. Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:15 AM
newraymond RE: And the Winner is.....


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Just finished up my quarterly month long job and now have time ... 

The only, that is only, possible pro to this situation is a chance for some kind of resolution via an overthrow of Ach. However the idea of becoming a nuclear force could still be in place with a replacement.

This situation is way above my pay grade.

 
7. Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:58 AM
Nefud RE: And the Winner is.....


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this never would have happened if we elected mccain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
8. Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:21 PM
nuart RE: And the Winner is.....


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QUOTE:this never would have happened if we elected mccain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


For a moment I was taken aback when I saw that hat tipping avatar.  I thought it was Nefud back!  But then I realized it couldn't be.  (even if the imposter has stolen his name as well) 

But anyway, lest we forget, I voted for Obama.

 

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
9. Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:07 PM
newraymond RE: And the Winner is.....


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I think we call it a hiatus around here . Fud doesn't have j this week and had to go somewhere- even the politics ( ewww) area. Even I am not in the mood for Ach stuff today.

  

 

 
10. Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:47 PM
Nefud RE: And the Winner is.....


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i'm just being silly, didn't mean to rain on your parade

 
11. Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:17 PM
nuart RE: And the Winner is.....


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Hey no problem.  No raining.  In fact the only parade I know of today was the million strong Lakers celebration here in Los Angeles.  Yawn.  We do that so often.

Nice to see you still have your fighting spirit and wilingness to do battle here in the political zone.

 

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
12. Wednesday, June 17, 2009 5:35 PM
Nefud RE: And the Winner is.....


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no fighting spirit, just a desire for cheap laughs. :)

 
13. Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:45 PM
nuart RE: And the Winner is.....


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The word "fighting" was meant to be an ironic reference to pacifism, you know.  But I am glad you have reconsidered your former rash decision to cut and run.  

 

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
14. Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:16 PM
newraymond RE: And the Winner is.....


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I had some thoughts on the Iran situation- but got timed out. Will try again tomorrow with a 'notepad' first.

 
15. Friday, June 19, 2009 7:36 AM
nuart RE: And the Winner is.....


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The situation is more tense today with the Supreme Leader's warning to the protesters.  The memory of 1979 is vivid in all Iranians whether they were even alive that time around. For those who prefer pictures to words ... this little clip from Al Jazeera is pretty good too though it was assembled before the actual speech.

 

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
16. Friday, June 19, 2009 1:10 PM
newraymond RE: And the Winner is.....


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The Shah of Iran provided more freedoms than the Revolutionary Council did after the revolution in '79. The cure worse, much worse ,than the disease ( some cultural grievances tied to the Shah). A radical religious bad actor state was created. Seperation of church and state seems necessary for a democratic change.

Jimmy Carter supported the Ayatollah's revolution. The payback was not forthcoming, exactly the opposite. U S Prisoners held long time.

Anyway , I don't know if the thread about the attempt on Carter's life is true, but Carter and the middle east together makes me nervous. Is Hamas a thirty year old replay of wrong policies with Carter or is it just" Chinatown" ( I love that line, Susan )

 
17. Friday, June 19, 2009 4:28 PM
nuart RE: And the Winner is.....


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Guess you and I are the only ones who think this is a compelling story, Raymond.  It's really the fruition of the chain reaction that has been going on for a long time in Iran and happens to be of critical importance to the world as we know it.  Stifling the protests in the Cyber-Age seems all but impossible.  But it is Obama's wishy-washy response to this inflammatory speech...

THE MIDDLE EAST MEDIA RESEARCH INSTITUTE
Special Dispatch - No. 2412
June 19, 2009
No. 2412
Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei in Friday Sermon – Summary of Main Points


Photo: IRINN, Iran, June 19, 2009

For the full translation, visit MEMRI TV on June 21.

Following is a summary of the main points of the June 19, 2009, Friday sermon by Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, according to the English voiceover by the Iranian Press TV.

The Voters Proved To the World Their "Political Consciousness and Commitment" To the Establishment

Khamenei said that even before the elections, the enemies had been spreading rumors of election fraud, and called the "unprecedented" turnout of almost 85% in Iran's June 12 presidential election a "political earthquake" for the enemy and a celebration for the friends of Iran.

He said that the elections showed that religious democracy is the third and right path, and that the forces of arrogance and democracies devoid of spirituality have failed. He added that the enemies want to crush the people's confidence in the Islamic establishment, which in turn would undermine the legitimacy of the establishment.

Khamenei said that the high turnout in the election, in which over 40 million Iranians cast their votes, was a great manifestation of the people's solidarity with the Islamic establishment, and that the election indicated the Iranian nation's "common sense of responsibility" to determine the future of the country.

He added that all those who took part in the election had proved to the world their "political consciousness and commitment" towards the establishment.

The Rivalry Among The Candidates Was Free And Transparent; Iran Is A Sound and Healthy Society

Khamenei stressed that the rivalry and competition among the candidates was free and transparent. He said that the Western media tried to present these debates as an indication that there is competition and fighting in Iran between supporters and opponents of the Revolution and the Islamic establishment, but that the reverse is true. He said that prior to the election he had warned President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad about the possible dangers of the debates.

Corruption should be fought anywhere, he stressed. He said that we do not claim that in our establishment there is no corruption, but Iran is a sound and healthy society.

11 Million Votes Could Not Have Been Rigged - But Guardian Council Will Look Into Candidates' Complaints

Khamenei said that the legal system of the election would not allow any ballot rigging in Iran. The votes were not rigged, and 11 million votes could not have been rigged.

He said that if people still had doubts, these could be dealt with via legal channels, and the candidates can request that the votes be counted again in their presence. He stressed that an investigation should take place, since this is a dangerous precedent, and that the candidates have the right to file complaints.

He said that the Guardian Council, which oversees the election, would look into the complaints of the candidates who are unhappy with the election results.

Leaders Cannot Show Extremism, Riots Cannot Be A Means to Pressure Authorities

Addressing Iranian politicians, Khamenei said that in these dangerous times, we cannot afford to make mistakes and leaders cannot show extremism - since any tendency towards extremism can infect the people and fan more extremism.

Khamenei also called for an end to the illegal street protests aimed at reversing the result of the election. He said that if the Iranian political elite wants to ignore the law, they will be held accountable for all violence, blood and rioting. Everyone must maintain self-restraint and patience; the enemy is lying in wait.

He also warned against attempts by foreign media outlets seeking to destabilize the country. He stressed that prominent diplomats in the Western world had removed their masks, and that the British government was the worst.

Khamenei also decried the slander of former and incumbent top officials in pre-election debates by candidates.

Prior to Elections, The Arrogant Powers Cast Doubts To Ensure Lower Turnout

Khamenei said that before the elections, the arrogant powers had tried to cast doubt on them, so as to ensure lower turnout. Then, after the elections, they realized that they needed to adapt themselves to the new situation, and to come to terms with everything in Iran, including the nuclear issue.

He said that when the protests broke out, they jumped at the chance, and showed their true colors. At this point, he said, Obama stated that "we have been waiting for people to take to the streets."

But, Khamenei stressed, the rioters were not supporters of candidates - they were riffraff, ill-wishers, and spies, especially for Zionism. Oh yeah, most of those protesters are probably all those Iranian Jeeeeeeeewwws

He said that the mistake by some in Iran misled others outside Iran, with the worst being comments by U.S. officials who said they were "worried" about the Iranian nation - while they slaughter people in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine.

He stressed that the Iranians need no advice on human rights and that they support all oppressed people.

The Time for Rivalry Is Over

Khamenei said that said that the time for rivalry is over and that all should now unite and line up behind the president-elect.

 

...that is so difficult to understand.  Maybe if Ahmadinejad were to build a settlement in a neighboring Arab country, Obama's "Let's Not Meddle" tolerance would reach its limits.  

How's that 'diplomacy' working out so far?

 

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
18. Friday, June 19, 2009 5:16 PM
newraymond RE: And the Winner is.....


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I know some Iranian American Jews. They had to leave Iran because of the Revolution.

I don't think there are enough anti Mullah rule protesters. At least now ? Those Mullahs need to take three steps back.

 

 
19. Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:22 AM
nuart IRAN these days. (new thread title)


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Still not much interest on the "disruptions" in Iran here on the Gazette, hmm? 

By now everyone must have seen the 40 second video of the beautiful young Iranian woman shot in the heart and dying on cell-phone video.  This NYTimes article sheds some light. 

It's all a little familiar this drip-drip-drip of revolution in Iran.  I remember the last time so clearly.  Every city in America had Iranian protesters with signs and petitions against the Shah.  Once when I was in San Francisco, the hotel where we stayed was cordoned off with a great show of security forces.  Some members of the Iranian royal family were staying there.  

Iran has become an unstable state in an unstable region.  To me, more worrisome than North Korea, at least for the moment.  

 

 

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
20. Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:41 AM
jordan RE: And the Winner is.....

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I saw that video yesterday. Sad...

Hopefully the drip drip revolution is turning into a gushing waterfall that will soon flood. And I really hope that Obama's tepid public response of not meddling is solely public, and the CIA is in there helping to push for a real revolution.


Jordan .

 
21. Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:19 AM
nuart RE: And the Winner is.....


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Yes, the conspiracies are (as usual) running amok.  And as usual, the CIA is the central casting culprit of choice, whether there are actual elements within Iran or outside of it working their machinations or not.  You-know-who cannot be far behind in their goal to overthrow the rightful Islamic Republic of Iran.

 

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
22. Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:25 AM
Nefud RE: IRAN these days. (new thread title)


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QUOTE:

Still not much interest on the "disruptions" in Iran here on the Gazette, hmm? 


 i think we're all pretty united in being happy to see people casting off the shackles of opression

 
23. Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:10 PM
nuart RE: And the Winner is.....


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Neda Salehi Agha Soltan
 
I don't know if 'happy' describes the protests so accurately.
 
But perhaps there's some kind of unity.
 
Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
24. Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:40 PM
newraymond RE: And the Winner is.....


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Obama has said today he is holding off on his response until the situation is over and things are concluded. All we are talking about is words here for heaven's sake. The Mullahs will accuse O of interference in their affairs anyway.

(Maybe Obama is not concerned with fixed elections- he is after all the product of  the Chicago political machine.) 

 
25. Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:51 PM
Nefud RE: And the Winner is.....


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iranians fully deserve democracy more than us at this point, i dont recall taking to the streets when the election was stolen a while back

 

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