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> The Swiss Ban Minarets
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| 1. Wednesday, December 2, 2009 4:56 PM |
| nuart |
The Swiss Ban Minarets |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:7632
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That's right. Didja hear about this? Any Swiss on the Gazette? I actually agree with their stance on the minarets not that it's going to stem the tide of growing European Islamization. Here's an interesting view from the Jerusalem Post. Make note of who wrote the article too. Whadda crazy crazy world. Can we blame the Swiss? Dec. 1, 2009 tawfik hamid , THE JERUSALEM POST On Sunday, Swiss voters supported a referendum proposal to ban the building of minarets in their country. Official results show more than 57 percent of voters and 22 out of 26 cantons - or provinces - voted in favor of the ban. Building more minarets - in addition to the four existing ones - was seen by many Swiss as a sign of Islamization of their free country. The government opposed the ban, saying it would harm Switzerland's image, particularly in the Muslim world. Several points must be raised in relation to this issue: 1.Can Muslims blame the Swiss people for being afraid of Islamization in their country? No, especially while the entire world sees the inhumane applications of Islamic law (Shari'a) wherever it is implemented. It should come as no surprise that the Swiss people don't want a system that even today practices discrimination against women, gays and minorities in the name of religion. The vivid images of stoning women and hanging gays in the Muslim world should make any sane individual inclined not to allow such an intolerant system to grow in his country under the banner of freedom of religion. 2. The Swiss people who rejected building minarets may be sending a message that their tolerance did not change the Muslim world and is not reciprocated. For several decades Muslims have been allowed to build mosques in Europe, wear their traditional symbols such as the hijab, and preach Islam to non-Muslims. Despite such high levels of tolerance in the West, non-Muslims are not permitted to practice similar rights in several parts of the Islamic world. Preaching Christianity is criminalized in a number of Muslim countries. Furthermore, non-Muslims are not permitted to have their holy books or to build their religious temples in many Shari'a-controlled areas. This lack of reciprocity of Western tolerance will naturally make many Westerners feel that showing tolerance to Muslims is not effective. 3. It seems strange that Muslims would insist on building minarets for mosques in Switzerland while thousands of mosques exist inside the Muslim world without minarets. The minarets are seen by many as representing the superiority of Islam, especially when they are taller than the churches; this sheds some light on the hidden intentions of Muslims who insist on building minarets in the heart of Europe. It is important that Muslims in Switzerland explain why they insist on using such historical symbols of Muslim superiority when it is neither mentioned in the Koran nor considered vital to building a mosque. 4. It seems too hypocritical that Muslims demand minarets in Europe while many non-Muslims in the Muslim world are denied basic and fundamental religious rights. The more important problem Muslims in Switzerland should address is the lack of basic religious rights for non-Muslim minorities, not these unnecessary minarets. The writer is an Islamic thinker and reformer, and one-time Islamic extremist from Egypt. He was a member of a terrorist Islamic organization JI with Dr. Ayman Al-Zawaherri, who later became the second in command of al-Qaida. He is currently a senior fellow and chairman of the study of Islamic radicalism at the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies.
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
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| 2. Wednesday, December 2, 2009 11:02 PM |
| bio_hazard |
RE: The Swiss Ban Minarets |
Member Since 7/7/2008 Posts:385
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It's a really bizarre story. I can't help but think i'd vote against that if it were in the US. I don't know much about swiss immigration policy. If this is affecting lots of muslim citizens (as opposed to legal or illegal immigrants), it seems weird to have the "judeo-christian laws and rights" and the "muslim rights". For one thing, I would guess a sizeable proportion of muslims living in the West are more liberal (that's why they moved!). Second, what a precedent. Are synagogues next? "Those yarmukas are icky- so sorry, they'll have to go". And finally- the tone of that editorial made no sense. It's like the swiss were going to punish other countries by repressing their own citizens. This seems so illogical and counterproductive I don't even know where to start. There must be more to the story- it is just so bizarre.
I really enjoy all kinds of religious architecture. there have been a lot of crappy things that have come out of religion, but art, poetry, and architecture are not examples of this. btw- is there a specific length to width ratio defining a minaret?
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| 3. Thursday, December 3, 2009 8:45 AM |
| nuart |
RE: The Swiss Ban Minarets |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:7632
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| QUOTE: Second, what a precedent. Are synagogues next? "Those yarmukas are icky- so sorry, they'll have to go".
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No, not next. They were first. Don't you remember?
Susan
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
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| 4. Thursday, December 3, 2009 10:13 AM |
| Booth |
RE: The Swiss Ban Minarets |
Member Since 8/20/2006 Posts:4388
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| QUOTE: btw- is there a specific length to width ratio defining a minaret?
| Those are yodeling towers.
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| 5. Thursday, December 3, 2009 10:23 AM |
| hopesfall |
RE: The Swiss Ban Minarets |
Member Since 12/20/2005 Posts:776
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Booth is right. I just used google earth to zoom right in to the top of one of the towers:
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| 6. Friday, December 4, 2009 6:54 PM |
| nuart |
RE: The Swiss Ban Minarets |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:7632
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Another take on the minaret ban from my old pal, the former leftist Roger L. Simon. November 29th, 2009 3:54 pm In a supposedly surprising development, the Swiss just voted to ban minarets on mosques in their country: Over 57% of Swiss voters chose to approve a blanket ban on the construction of Muslim minarets, according to official results posted by Swiss news agency ATS. Just days before the election only 37% of people polled by state-owned television station DRS said they would support the ban. Swiss feminists were apparently in the lead in the “Stop the Minarets” campaign. No surprise there really. Salman Rushdie is not the only one to read Islamic texts (and behavior) as an assault on women. Anyone with eyes open, certainly an intelligent female, would. If only our own feminists could get off their reactionary multi-culturalist behinds in this regard. But what may be more interesting is what this vote may reveal about what is truly inside the heart of the average European after decades of Islamization. The elites, of course, are alarmed. From the Sky report: The Swiss government had urged people to vote against the ban, arguing it will cause “incomprehension overseas and harm Switzerland’s image”. Swiss President Hans-Rudolf Merz made a video broadcast to the nation, which said: “Muslims should be able to practise their religion and have access to minarets in Switzerland too. But the call of the muezzin will not sound here.” The right-wing proposal has stirred fears of violent reactions in Muslim countries and an economically disastrous boycott by wealthy Muslims who bank, shop and spend holidays in Switzerland. Of course this is called a “right-wing proposal.” That must be news to those feminists. And, of course, there is no mention that throughout much of the Islamic world – forget minarets or spires – churches and synagogues are banned altogether (not to mention apostates have their throats slit).
On a personal note I remember Hans-Rudolf Merz well from my recent trip to Geneva for the Durban II Conference where I watched as the Swiss President welcomed the Holocaust-denying-nuclear-bomb-buliding-mega-misogynistic-homosexual-denying-and-now-demonstrator-murdering-religious-psychopath President of Iran Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Call it ultra-bourgoies multi-culturalism or simply protecting banking interests, the whole thing was despicable. It’s great to see the Swiss people turn their backs on all that. And speaking of multi-culturalism, before the MC Bourgeoisie deluges us with their fuddy-duddy complaints that Judaism and Christianity have also had their bouts of misogyny and homophobia, let me answer with a “yeah, well, we all know that.” But those two religions long ago began to reform themselves in those areas in many of their branches and we all know that too. Don’t believe me (or still want to lie about it for multi-culti purposes), next time you want to have a gay pride parade, want to hold it in Tel Aviv or Cairo? Or how about Riyadh?
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
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| 7. Saturday, December 5, 2009 7:20 PM |
| nuart |
RE: The Swiss Ban Minarets |
Member Since 12/18/2005 Posts:7632
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This was bound to happen. Fatwa City and now Iran weighs in on the controversy. December 5, 2009 | 1:07 pm 
An East-West clash over a Swiss referendum last week banning the construction of mosque minarets heated up today as Iran's foreign minister warned of unspecified "consequences" if the ban were enforced. Manouchehr Mottaki spoke on the phone with his Swiss counterpart Micheline Calmy-Rey. Switzerland and Iran generally have good relations. The Swiss serve as Washington's representative in the Iranian capital in the absence of formal relations between America and the Islamic Republic, giving them exalted status in Tehran's diplomatic circles. But Mottaki had harsh words for Switzerland, saying enforcement of the ban on new minarets was “against the prestige of a country which claims to be an advocate of democracy and human rights" and would "damage Switzerland’s image as a pioneer of respecting human rights among Muslims' public opinion," according to a report by the official Islamic Republic News Agency, or IRNA. The Swiss ban on minarets, a feature of Islamic mosques, has roiled the Muslim world. The Swiss government has said it would abide by the vote even though the government and parliament had opposed the referendum. Iran's population is 90% Shiite Muslim. But it permits construction of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, though some Sunni Muslims have complained they have a tough time building houses of worship in some parts of the country. “Values such as tolerance, dialogue and respecting others' religions should never be put to referendum,” Mottaki told his Swiss counterpart. He expressed hope that Bern would soon “take necessary steps and find a constitutional way to prevent imposition of the ban.” An Iranian cleric today also condemned the minaret ban. Ayatollah Hossein Nouri-Hamadani, said the move was "at odds with the protection of Muslim citizens' civil rights and will hurt the feelings of Muslims across the world," according to Iran's state television. Calmy-Rey told Mottaki her government would "use all its means to support Muslims rights," according to IRNA. -- Borzou Daragahi in New York Photo: A minaret stands illuminated over the Khadija mosque in Berlin. Credit: Andreas Rentz/Getty Images delayedAds.push(function(){ FD.addAd($merge(FD.baseAd, { id: "adspot-940X20-pos-1", iframeId: "adspot-940X20-pos-1-iframe", params: $merge($merge(FD.baseAd.params, { pos: 1, adtype: 'panorama', aamsz : "940X20" }),getAdParams("940X20")) ,height: 1 ,width: 940 }) ); } ); Two demonstrators wear minarets made from paper on their heads to protest against the results of a vote in Switzerland. Photo: Reuters
“Half a truth is often a great lie.” Ben Franklin
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