Home | Register | Login | Members  

Politics > Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark
New Topic | Post Reply
<< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | >>  
1. Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:10 AM
nuart Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:7632

 View Profile
 Send PM
I thought this was another interesting story out of Europe.  Sooner or later something's gotta give.  What will it be?  European Islam?  Or European Tolerant Multi-cultural Secularists?  Does it depend on who has the most fervant spirit?  The longest history?  The greatest unity?  What will it be?

I'd say this demonstrates some of the loggerheads being faced.  Seems that it's going to get worse before it gets better, too.  Any Danes have thoughts on this story?

Susan


New York Times
January 8, 2006

Denmark Is Unlikely Front in Islam-West Culture War

COPENHAGEN - When the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published 12 cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, including one in which he is shown wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse, it expected a strong reaction in this country of 5.4 million people.

But the paper was unprepared for the global furor that ensued, including demonstrations in the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir, death threats against the artists, condemnation from 11 Muslim countries and a rebuke from the United Nations.

"The cartoons did nothing that transcends the cultural norms of secular Denmark, and this was not a provocation to insult Muslims," said Flemming Rose, cultural editor of Jyllands-Posten, Denmark's largest newspaper, which has declined to apologize for the drawings.

"But if we talk of freedom of speech, even if it was a provocation, that does not make our right to do it any less legitimate before the law," he added in an interview from Miami. He spent months living under police protection in Denmark.

As countries across Europe grapple with how to assimilate their growing Muslim populations in the post-9/11 world, Denmark has become an unlikely flashpoint in the escalating culture wars between Islam and the West. The publication of the cartoons in late September has provoked a fierce national debate over whether Denmark's famously liberal laws on free speech have gone too far.  

It also has tested the patience of Denmark's 200,000 Muslims. Many of them say the cartoons reflect an intensifying anti-immigrant climate that is stigmatizing minorities and radicalizing young Muslims.

In Norrebro, an ethnically mixed neighborhood of Copenhagen where the philosopher Soren Kierkegaard is buried and where kebab stands dot the tree-lined streets, Imam Ahmed Abu-Laban, a leader among Denmark's Muslims, bristles at what he calls the "Islam phobia" gripping the country. He asserted that the cartoons had been calculated to incite Muslims because it was well known that in Islam depictions of the prophet were considered blasphemy.

"We are being mentally tortured," Imam Ahmed said at his mosque, an anonymous building that looks more like an apartment complex than a house of worship. "The cartoons are an insult against Islam, an attempt by right-wing forces in this country to get a rise out of the Muslim community and so portray us as against Danish values."

Mr. Rose, once a journalist in Iran, said he decided to commission the cartoons for Jyllands-Posten when he heard that Danish cartoonists were too scared of Muslim fundamentalists to illustrate a new children's biography of Muhammad.

Annoyed at the self-censorship he said had overtaken Europe since the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh was murdered last year by a Muslim radical for criticizing Islam's treatment of women, Mr. Rose said he decided to test Denmark's free speech norms.

The cartoons were published amid the growth of an anti-immigrant sentiment in Denmark, reflected in the rise of the far-right Danish People's Party. The party, which holds 13 percent of the seats in the Danish Parliament, has helped to push through the toughest anti-immigration rules on the Continent, including a rule preventing Danish citizens age 24 or younger from bringing in spouses from outside Denmark.

Soren Krarup, a retired priest and leading voice in the party, said the Muslim response to the cartoons showed that Islam was not compatible with Danish customs. He said Jesus had been satirized in Danish literature and popular culture for centuries - including a recent much-publicized Danish painting of Jesus with an erection - so why not Muhammad? He also argues that Muslims must learn to integrate.

"Muslims who come here reject our culture," he said. "Muslim immigration is a way for Muslims to conquer us, just as they have done for the past 1,400 years."

Muslim leaders say that such talk helped create the atmosphere that allowed the cartoons to be published. And they contend that it is alienating the people the Danish People's Party says it wants to assimilate.

In a sign that some Muslims are becoming radicalized, Danish counterterrorism officials say more young Danish Muslims are being drawn to Hizb ut-Tahrir, or the Party of Liberation, which seeks the unification of all Muslim countries under one leader and Shariah, the Islamic legal code. The group, which distributes literature at mosques and on the Internet, is banned in most of the Muslim world, as well as in Russia and Germany.

But because its main weapon is ideology rather than explosives, Danish officials say, it is allowed to operate in Denmark under the same permissive rules that allowed the publication of the cartoons. Under Danish law, inciting someone to commit an act of terror is illegal, but spouting vitriol against the West or satirizing Muhammad is not. The State Prosecutor's Office investigated the group in spring 2004 and decided not to ban it because it had not broken the law.

The free speech debate and the concerns over Hizb ut-Tahrir swept through Denmark's public schools last month when the imam's 17-year-old son, Taim, was expelled from Vester Borgerdyd School, after teachers overheard him giving sermons calling for the destruction of Israel and assailing Danish democracy during Friday Prayer at the school.   The imam said his son became radicalized after being recruited by Hizb ut-Tahrir.

He said he opposed his son's sermons and had told his son to leave the house for defying him. But he also criticized the ruling that followed: a committee of mostly Christian rectors banned Friday Prayer at public schools across Denmark.

"They are trying to turn Denmark into a banana republic," said Imam Ahmed. "How is it O.K. to publish the cartoons, yet my son is portrayed as an ayatollah?"

At Vester Borgerdyd School, where the walls are lined with photographs of smiling students in Muslim dress, the headmistress, Anne Birgitte Rasmussen, said that Taim Abu-Laban had attracted a following and that she had feared his sermons would raise tensions among the school's more moderate Muslims.

"The tone of the political debate in this country, the talk about Muslims and immigrants, is making it very difficult for us," she said.

Mr. Rose, the editor, said free speech, no matter how radical, should be allowed to flourish, from all varieties of perspectives.

"Muslims should be allowed to burn the Danish flag in a public square if that's within the boundaries of the law," he said. "Though I think this would be a strange signal to the Danish people who have hosted them."


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
2. Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:11 AM
nuart RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:7632

 View Profile
 Send PM
Come on, guys.  Where's the outrage?  Or even a little interest. 

Gavin?  Isn't this a little bigger than Christians (woefully wrong-headed) complaining about "Xs"? 

Bigger than one lone televangelist saying God is angry with Sharon over the Gaza Strip? 

Bigger than Bush's admiration for Jesus?

Doesn't this sort of "culture war" have a greater potential, at least, for some level of societal upheaval?

Or is it just a ho-hum?

In my opinion, it is only ho-hum at Europe's peril.  But I could be over-reacting.  In any case, I have a reaction and little fear of the Fatwa from Afar.

How's about you?  Political forum is now wide open to opinions from all.

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
3. Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:04 PM
Jazz RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/19/2005
 Posts:2214

 View Profile
 Send PM
In the mean time; make your own Mo-Toon.
Here's a blank:


Jazz Theme

 
4. Tuesday, January 10, 2006 2:04 PM
Apogee RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:375

 View Profile
 Send PM
Free speech...and that's all I have to say about that.


"Lost on the freeway again, lookin' for means to an end."

 
5. Monday, January 16, 2006 10:32 AM
Jazz RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/19/2005
 Posts:2214

 View Profile
 Send PM

It's getting even more stupid .. and who would have thought that could be possible with these people.
 

Muslims just add a couple of Mo-Toons (who are in fact much worse then the original ones .. funnier though) and blame Denmark for it.

Copy paste is soooo 2005, so go and clickerdiclick  

 You might end up laughing and rolling you eyes .. now THATS fun huh!


Jazz Theme

 
6. Monday, January 16, 2006 12:44 PM
KahlanMnel RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark

 Moderator
 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:13606

 View Profile
 Send PM
Uh. Why don't you try editing the post and fixing the image? It was working earlier.


~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

 
7. Monday, January 16, 2006 12:54 PM
KahlanMnel RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark

 Moderator
 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:13606

 View Profile
 Send PM
So sorry to put you out. Next time we'll have our staff of trained monkeys at the ready so as not to inconvenience your life.


~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

 
8. Monday, January 16, 2006 1:13 PM
nuart RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:7632

 View Profile
 Send PM

Has anyone else noticed how hilarious people seem to be on MLK day?

Or is it just me?

Who noticed, I mean. Not who's hilarious today necessarily.

The day is young!

Susan

PS How happy am I that the trained chimps put a scrolling bar on the emoticons! I'm in heaven!!!        Chimp


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
9. Monday, January 16, 2006 1:48 PM
KahlanMnel RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark

 Moderator
 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:13606

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:

PS How happy am I that the trained chimps put a scrolling bar on the emoticons! I'm in heaven!!!        Chimp


 I am SO stealing that image.


~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

 
10. Tuesday, January 31, 2006 10:50 AM
nuart RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:7632

 View Profile
 Send PM

How totally hilarious is it that my chimp at the computer turned into black lab puppies! Bizarre.

Oh well. Here is an update on the Danish situation. Cave, fold, wimp out, appease. Take your pick.

Europe. Meanwhile, a French MP was tried and charged thousands of Euros for hate speech because he dared to suggest that heterosexual families are preferable for children. No free speech in Old Europe?

 

Susan

 


 

January 31, 2006

Danish paper issues apology for Prophet cartoons

By Nicholas Watt

Denmark's largest selling broadsheet newspaper last night issued an apology to the "honourable citizens of the Muslim world" after publishing a series of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad that provoked protests across the Middle East. In a lengthy statement the editor-in-chief of Jyllands-Posten admitted that the 12 cartoons, one of which depicted Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban, had caused "serious misunderstandings".

Carsten Juste said: "The 12 cartoons ... were not intended to be offensive, nor were they at variance with Danish law, but they have indisputably offended many Muslims, for which we apologise." Mr Juste spoke out hours after Scandinavians were warned against travelling to Gaza and the West Bank after the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade demanded that all Swedes and Danes leave the territories. An Iraqi militant group joined the protests when it called for attacks against Danish and Norwegian targets after a Norwegian newspaper ran the cartoons.

Danish businesses started to take fright yesterday after religious leaders in Saudi Arabia, which last week recalled its ambassador to Copenhagen, called for a boycott of Danish goods. The dairy group Arla Foods reported that two of its staff in Saudi Arabia had been beaten by angry customers.


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
11. Tuesday, January 31, 2006 2:45 PM
Ditte RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/19/2005
 Posts:2512

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:Free speech...and that's all I have to say about that.

is all I can say to our free speech right now. No offence, Apogee

What about some respect for Islam? Those cartoons should never have been published. This might be something we will never understand but those drawings have actually hurt a LOT of people. This is dead serious for them.

That apology, by Jyllands Posten, should have been given a long time ago. Not after Arla begun to loose their custumers.

That´s all I have to say about this matter...for now

Ditte


Yeah but no but yeah but no but....
 
12. Tuesday, January 31, 2006 2:55 PM
Apogee RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:375

 View Profile
 Send PM

Wimp out? The newspaper has independently chosen to apoligize. Our prime minister still refuses to give a direct apology, citing that it is not his job and the governments job to control the free press in anyway. Frankly, I think a lot of people here are shocked about what is going on.Several Danish Islamic organizations has made information trips in order to notify the world about the cartoons. In many Islamic countries the Danish flag is being burned, hate speeches, demonstrations etc. Several governments have recalled their diplomats from Denmark. Danish products are being boycut, currently many people involved in dairy productions are in risk of losing their jobs. The whole situation is being escalated because of misinformation and rumours.  Meanwhile many of the Islamic citizens demand an apology, seemingly under the impression that the prime minister has the same kind of authority as their respective leaders/dictators.

Oh and Ditte. I fully stand by my free speech argument. Did I write anything about my own personal opinions about Jylland-Posten's publication? No...because it is a matter of principle.


"Lost on the freeway again, lookin' for means to an end."

 
13. Wednesday, February 1, 2006 1:01 PM
nuart RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:7632

 View Profile
 Send PM

I doubt that it's any kind of a breather, but somehow seeing another country's flag being burned rather than the usual Stars and Stripes feels, well, like a pleasant break, I guess, though I know it won't last. I used to laugh when I'd watch the flag-burning so prevalent in Muslim countries, and think to myself how a clever entrepeneur could build a thriving business just by manufacturing flammable US and Israeli flags. Maybe even ready-made effigies of Bush and Blair would find a market as well. Oh, I'm just a capitalist who cannot help but think of revenue building enterprises!

So, the apology is not wimping out because it was independently issued by the newspaper? I call it wimping out and I call it disengenous. The Danish newspaper cannot have its cake and eat it too, as we say in the US. If they wished to make a bold statement on behalf of freedom of speech, then following it up days later with an apology renders the entrie exercise neutralized. What was the point? They knew what they were doing and it was a test of sorts.  They expected a reaction and they got it.  My guess is those who came up with the initial idea are not the same ones issuing public apologies.

The Danish Prime Minister's comments are as close to an apology as they can be without actually groveling. Appeasement comes with a price. How far is a nation willing to go in adhering to another nation's code of ethics in order to keep the peace? Well, wait and watch. 

Anyway, get used to the turmoil. Then see how far apologies to the Umma go. Freedom of speech is all about offensive speech; not the freedom to speak pleasantries. Manners are lovely and I'm all for them, but in this international world there simply cannot be one religion, nation, or race against whom mocking, ridiculing or "blaspheming" are disallowed while everyone else is fair game.

If the cartoons HURT a lot of people, all I can suggest is to grow a thicker skin. Write letters to the editor. Explain yourself. Or do what we in the US have always done -- make like "water off a duck's back."  Evolve already!

Wonder who feels more pain; someone who heard about the cartoons from their Wahabbi imam, or the innocent Danish workers who were physically assaulted. To blame provacateurs (newspapers) for someone else's violence is to suggest that the attacker is far too fragile in character or self restraint so that everyone else needs to walk on eggshells lest they be angered.

Speaking of which, have the Muslim fundamentalist Taliban of Afghanistan apologized to the Buddhists yet for having blown up those statues??? Just wondering. I haven't heard.

 

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
14. Wednesday, February 1, 2006 2:40 PM
Apogee RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:375

 View Profile
 Send PM

First of all, get your facts straight. The cartoons in the newspapers were published over 4 months ago. Furthermore, the cartoons were not meant to demonstrate the freedom of speech or the rights of the free press, but was used for a larger discussion over the role of Islam, specifically some of the issues and debates following the murder of Theo Van Gogh. The apology published by the newspaper was aimed to disspell the myths and disinformation which is currently circulating in Islamic countries. They did not apoligize for publishing the cartoons or express any form of second doubts regarding the subject; they apoligized for the strong reactions the cartoon have caused. As of now, the chief-editor has stated he would not have printed the cartoons if he knew Danish citizens would have been in danger (no kidding), the writer of the article and some of the drawers do not have second doubts however. The Prime Minister has condemned any hatred exercized against any forms of religion, but maintains that he cannot in anyway control the press and that free speech is an intergrated part of our society. How is that an apology? Like CCC posted, many other newspapers around Europe are printing the cartoons because this has now turned into a debate about the rights of free speech due to the fact that some Muslims are demanding apologies and punishments which go against this central concept.


"Lost on the freeway again, lookin' for means to an end."

 
15. Wednesday, February 1, 2006 6:00 PM
nuart RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:7632

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:

First of all, get your facts straight. The cartoons in the newspapers were published over 4 months ago.

Okay. 120 days later, comes the apology. Both the editor and Flemming Rose had to know they'd provoke a response and saying "I'm sorry you reacted so strongly" is a bit limp. I'm sorry too, but the fact is, any other response would have been the news bulletin.

The editor admits shame over the outcome, which I assume is the result of his paper issuing an apology rather than hanging tougher. Running a new series for example. Otherwise how can one reconcile the following:

Carsten Juste, editor of Jyllends-Post,said the principle to be drawn from the debate was that the opponents of press freedom had secured a victory. "My guess is that no one will draw the Prophet Muhammad in Denmark in the next generation and therefore I must say with deep shame that they have won."

Furthermore, the cartoons were not meant to demonstrate the freedom of speech or the rights of the free press, but was used for a larger discussion over the role of Islam, specifically some of the issues and debates following the murder of Theo Van Gogh.

Larger discussion? Kinda reminds me of those who claim the US Civil War was not about slavery but about state's rights, but when asked, "Which state rights?" would answer, "The right to own slaves."

I know all about the murder of Theo Van Gogh, Apogee, and the self-proclaimed reasons the murderer committed the crime. "Submission" was about the abuses of women in the Muslim world. But ultimately Van Gogh was murdered because his freedom of expression was deemed not permissible to the radicalized Muslim who killed him. Van Gogh had offended Islam -- and I agree, the film it was clearly intended to be offensive -- and any larger discussion would have to concern itself with the fundamental differences between the values of the host state and the values brought by an immigrant group.

This from a Danish paper:

The newspapers' action fed into a sharpening debate here over freedom of expression, human rights and what the culture editor of Jyllands-Posten, the newspaper that first published the cartoons in September, called a "clash of civilizations" between secular Western democracies and Islamic societies.

The apology published by the newspaper was aimed to disspell the myths and disinformation which is currently circulating in Islamic countries.

Myths and disinformation sound par for the course, frankly. I don't know how an apology from the newspaper in Denmark would cure this illness which is at epidemic proportions in most Islamic countries as a result of... a non-free press that is largely state-controlled.

They did not apoligize for publishing the cartoons or express any form of second doubts regarding the subject; they apoligized for the strong reactions the cartoon have caused.

How can anybody apologize for another's reaction? Look, I'm not even sure we're in disagreement here. I'm not sure exactly how you feel about what I would describe as a HUGE, though easily anticipated, Over-Reaction on the part of Muslim world over --- CARTOONS!

As of now, the chief-editor has stated he would not have printed the cartoons if he knew Danish citizens would have been in danger (no kidding), the writer of the article and some of the drawers do not have second doubts however.

Good for those without the second doubts! But the chief-editor should know that sometimes people find themselves in danger over large and meaningful issues.

This from the Main Man when asked if he had regrets:

"I would say that I do not regret having commissioned those cartoons and I think asking me that question is like asking a rape victim if she regrets wearing a short skirt Friday night at the discotheque." Flemming Rose

Bravo, Flemming Rose!

The Prime Minister has condemned any hatred exercized against any forms of religion, but maintains that he cannot in anyway control the press and that free speech is an intergrated part of our society. How is that an apology?

You're right. Not exactly an apology.  Once again, it's the passivity of the statement. "Deeply distressed" that they "have been seen as a defamation" and apologies "contributing to comfort for those who were hurt." It's quite tender, really, and seems to affirm that there is justification for such international over-reaction.

On the other hand, Rasmussen's was a political statement and as such, not extraordinary. I would expect the same from any American politician as well. But if this turns into more "hate crime" legislation, I would feel it as misguided as I do when with similar laws here. Once you start determining a motifs as hateful, you're well on the slippery slope.

"I, likewise, am deeply distressed by the fact that these drawings, by many Muslims, have been seen as a defamation of the Prophet Muhammad and Islam as a religion," Rasmussen said.
"I do hope that the apology of the independent newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, will contribute to comfort those that have been hurt."

Like CCC posted, many other newspapers around Europe are printing the cartoons because this has now turned into a debate about the rights of free speech due to the fact that some Muslims are demanding apologies and punishments which go against this central concept.

Turned into? What else could it be from the perspective of the West? Good for those other European newspapers, btw!

I guess the best that can be hoped for at this point, is a European solidarity on Western values. Reprinting the cartoons throughout the continent is a little like the legend of the Danish king during WWII who refused to single out Danish Jews with yellow armbands and later convinced the rest of the country to wear an armband as he did. I know it didn't happen that way but still the principle is the same. They can't boycott, attack, send back ambassadors from every European country, can they? And if they can or if they would, isn't it worth it to stand up for the principles?

Susan



     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
16. Thursday, February 2, 2006 1:47 PM
nuart RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:7632

 View Profile
 Send PM

Hmmm, hadn't heard about the Tate cancelling a show out of sensitivity. Have to look that up.

I was particularly interested to read about the European Union and Norway's treatment by the Palestinians.

Wonder how the uproar may have differed had a Danish newspaper published non-insulting illustrations of the 7th century prophet for books on Islam. Or how about a film telling the story of the growth of Islam that's directed toward a Western audience with Keanu Reeves or Rowan Atkinson playing Mohammed? Would ANY actor be willing to accept the role? Would it be possible for the film to be made without death threats even if the film were a straight forward respectfully presented historical version? Is the reaction in the Muslim world mainly because of the insulting imagery or because there is any representation of Mohammed at all?

As I write this, I have been listening for over an hour to US Director of Intelligence, John Negroponte, as he briefs the US Sentate Intelligence Committee on the most serious Worldwide Threats. The cartoons aren't mentioned but Numero Uno was identified as the Global Jihadist Movement. As we grapple with how to reconcile an inconsequential cultural faux pas with attacks on the most fundamental rights of citizens of the Western World, greater clarity may come.

Susan

 

PS  Just found this interesting article which addresses some of what Apogee brought up in an earlier post.

 The Counterterrorism Blog

February 02, 2006
Fabricated cartoons worsened Danish controversy


The controversy over the publication of cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed is expanding, as more Muslims join the boycott and protests against Denmark and various European newspapers decide to publish the cartoons, mostly out of solidarity with Jyllands Posten and to make a strong political stand. One issue that puzzles many Danes is the timing of this outburst. The cartoons were published in September: Why have the protests erupted from Muslims worldwide only now? The person who knows the answer to this question is Ahmed Abdel Rahman Abu Laban, a man that the Washington Post has recently profiled as “one of Denmark's most prominent imams.”

Last November, Abu Laban, a 60-year-old Palestinian who had served as translator and assistant to top Gamaa Islamiya leader Talaal Fouad Qassimy during the mid-1990s and has been connected by Danish intelligence to other Islamists operating in the country, put together a delegation that traveled to the Middle East to discuss the issue of the cartoons with senior officials and prominent Islamic scholars. The delegation met with Arab League Secretary Amr Moussa, Grand Imam of Al-Azhar Sheikh Mohammad Sayyed Tantawi, and Sunni Islam’s most influential scholar, Yusuf al Qaradawi. "We want to internationalize this issue so that the Danish government will realize that the cartoons were insulting, not only to Muslims in Denmark, but also to Muslims worldwide," said Abu Laban.

On its face, it would appear as if nothing were wrong. However, the Danish Muslim delegation showed much more than the 12 cartoons published by Jyllands Posten. In the booklet it presented during its tour of the Middle East, the delegation included other cartoons of Mohammed that were highly offensive, including one where the Prophet has a pig face. But these additional pictures were NOT published by the newspaper, but were completely fabricated by the delegation and inserted in the booklet (which has been obtained and made available to me by Danish newspaper Ekstra Bladet). The delegation has claimed that the differentiation was made to their interlocutors, even though the claim has not been independently verified. In any case, the action was a deliberate malicious and irresponsible deed carried out by a notorious Islamist who in another situation had said that “mockery against Mohamed deserves death penalty.” And in a quintessential exercise in taqiya, Abu Laban has praised the boycott of Danish goods on al Jazeera, while condemning it on Danish TV.

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
17. Thursday, February 2, 2006 2:10 PM
Jazz RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/19/2005
 Posts:2214

 View Profile
 Send PM

"The controversy over Danish editorial cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed has widened, escalating into an armed standoff in the Gaza Strip. Now, Jordan has stepped into the fray -- in favor of the editorials."

 

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1889584,00.html 


Jazz Theme

 
18. Thursday, February 2, 2006 3:55 PM
nuart RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:7632

 View Profile
 Send PM

Interesting article, Jazz. I just Googled the Jordanian journalist to get a sense of who he is and found this article from 1999! This article also gives some insight into the Arab press. In any event, Jihad Momani is a guy to watch. I love learning about the forward thinking movers and shakers in the Muslim world and hope their numbers increase through their boldness. Sure hope we don't hear him apologizing any time soon.

Susan

 

PS OH NO!!!! This just in from 2 hours ago. Forget my praise for Momani:


Editor-in-Chief of Sheihan Expresses Regret over Republishing Drawings Insult Prophet Muhammad


Pet0699 4 0156 Editor-in-Chief of Sheihan Expresses Regret over Republishing Drawings Insult Prophet Muhammad Amman, Feb. 2(Petra)-- Editor-in-Chief of Sheihan Weekly Newspaper Jihad Momani expressed regret over republishing drawings insulting Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Upon Him). In a statement from which Jordan News Agency /Petra/ has received a copy, Momani expressed the paper's regret over republishing such drawings, stressing the paper's stance which rejects any act insulting Prophet Muhammad. He also pointed that the paper intended to show, through a report supported by some drawings, the great mistake committed by the Danish Paper and the world's growing anger towards these drawings. //Petra// 022123 Local FEB 2006 


And it appears that Momani was fired as well. The saga continues:

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Bangkok Post, Thailand

Jordan weekly reprints blasphemous cartoons

Amman (dpa) - The owners of Jordan's Shihan Weekly on Thursday fired the paper's editor for republishing three of the 12 Danish cartoons depicting Islam's Prophet Mohammed which have triggered outrage in the Arab world and a campaign to boycott Danish products.

"The Arab Printers Company which owns Shihan Weekly has decided to fire its editor Jihad Momani as of Thursday after republishing the blasphemous caricatures," the firm said in a statement.

The company said that it had also decided to withdraw the paper's new issue from the market and vowed to "punish all those involved in such irresponsible and shocking action."

The Jordanian government condemned Shihan's reproduction of the cartoons and said the paper had "committed a grave mistake and should apologise immediately."

In an editorial, Momani urged Muslims of the world to "behave rationally" and seemed to belittle the impact of the publication of the caricatures compared with the injury to Islam inflicted by suicide bombers who killed 60 civilians in Amman in blasts that rocked three Amman hotels on November 9.

"Who hurts Islam more: a foreigner who excels in depicting the Prophet, or a Muslim with an explosive belt who blows himself up at a wedding party?" Momani asked. (Bingo, Momani! And the right question!)

However, he said: "I published the cartoons in order to enable people to know what is going on and did not publish them out of promotion purposes."

The cartoons were originally published by the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten on September 30 and reproduced in the Norwegian magazine Magazinet on January 10. Other European papers have reproduced the caricatures over the past couple of days.

The Jordanian journalists' syndicate meanwhile issued a statement strongly condemning the publication of the caricatures by Danish and other European newspapers and rejected the excuse that the move came in the cause of "freedom of expression."

"While the Jordanian Journalists Association Council absolutely condemns the publication of the caricatures, it urges European authorities to take the necessary measures to avert repetition of such offences in future," the statement said.

Jordanian trade unions also said they were going ahead with arrangements to hold two protests on Saturday and Tuesday to urge stepping up the boycott of Danish products.

 



Then from back when Momani was a stand-up guy:

 
Wednesday, November 3, 1999
JPA postpones decision to expel journalists
By Alia Shukri Hamzeh


AMMAN — The Jordan Press Association council on Tuesday postponed the execution of a recent decision to expel three journalists who visited Israel in September, a council member said.

“The council's decision to postpone an earlier decision to expel Al Ra'i columnist Sultan Hattab, Jordan Times Chief Editor Abdullah Hasanat and Al Dustour columnist Jihad Momani, came after one of the council members handed in a memo requesting the issue be put to further discussion,” said JPA Vice President Tariq Momani. (Wonder if Tariq is related to Jihad?)

He told the Jordan Times that after an hour of deliberations, the 10-member council decided to investigate and discuss the issue in future meetings.

The council on Oct. 9 announced that it would abide by the JPA disciplinary committee's recommendation to expel Hattab, Hasanat and Momani for violating the association's bylaws and “normalising” with Israel.

The three had gone on a week-long visit to Israel where they met several Arab and Israeli personalities.

The action that was prompted by a complaint from head of the JPA's public freedom's committee Nayef Mahasneh, led to a three-member disciplinary committee investigation which in turn found the three journalists guilty of violating JPA's bylaws for normalising. It recommended that they be expelled from the JPA and not be allowed to practise journalism again.

JPA bylaws as well as 12 other professional associations in Jordan forbid their members, estimated at 100,000, from “normalising” relations with Israeli and Israelis.

Despite the fact that the council approved the disciplinary committee's recommendations by a 6-4 vote, it did not sign it, making the decision not binding.

If signed and ratified by the council, the expulsion could jeopardise the journalists' careers since the Press and Publications Law that came into force early October requires practising journalists to be JPA members.

The issue of the three journalists led to a widespread controversy amongst journalists as well as other professional associations. The JPA's general assembly was divided between those who viewed the journalists' visit to Israel as normal and within the framework of their profession in seeking the truth and reporting on it, while others viewed it as an affront to the association's laws that ban journalists from any dealings with “the Zionist enemy” despite a peace treaty signed between both governments in 1994.

A council member had expected the postponement earlier saying the council had been facing “immense pressure” from many sides including the government to reverse the decision.

He said the decision will not go into effect but rather postponed more than once until the entire issue peters out.

Aware of the fact that the council has been under pressure, several general assembly members started collecting signatures for a petition demanding the “immediate expulsion” of the journalists.

The petition, which was supposed to be handed to the council ahead of their Tuesday's weekly meeting never made it.

A journalist, who preferred anonymity, said signatures are still being collected to force the JPA to abide by its decision.

According to JPA bylaws, the general assembly must muster a simple majority of signatures to force the council to take action. The JPA has 577 members.

The journalist said that the general assembly members had also prepared another petition to be signed, calling on the council, headed by Seif Sharif, to resign for not abiding by their decisions.

“We expected the JPA to retract their decision and we think they should abide by it no matter what,” he added.

“We are just a few signatures away from a simple majority,” he said.

Momani said the petitions are not considered legally binding, but, he added, “if the simple majority demands that we abide by our decision or a resignation we will do it out of moral (ethical) obligation.”

The three journalists had explained that the visit, which was upon an invitation from the Haifa University Centre for Arab Jewish Studies, was meant to get them better acquainted with the political and academic conditions in which Arab Israelis work. They have protested the expulsion decision saying it impinges on their freedom and announced their intention to contest it at the Higher Court of Justice if it is ratified.


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
19. Thursday, February 2, 2006 11:12 PM
JVSCant RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:2870

 View Profile
 Send PM

Naive or shortsighted of me, perhaps, but I didn't think Europe was where the battle was going to open up like this... because I do fear it's really moving to a different level now, and one that is going to be messy -- even in relation to what we're already seen around the world.

And I certainly didn't expect it to be over a cartoon.


 
20. Friday, February 3, 2006 12:06 PM
nuart RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:7632

 View Profile
 Send PM
QUOTE:

Naive or shortsighted of me, perhaps, but I didn't think Europe was where the battle was going to open up like this... because I do fear it's really moving to a different level now, and one that is going to be messy -- even in relation to what we're already seen around the world.

And I certainly didn't expect it to be over a cartoon.


Gosh, Jamie, are you naive! Some of us far-sighted, pompous asses have been predicting this for years. The expression "Eur-abia" has been percolating for some time.

One of the key points in this discussion is the explanation for the 4-month lag between the initial cartoon publication and the subsequent over-reaction.  We should not lose sight of WHO put the story on the front burner after all this time. Someone who also distributed additional drawings NOT published in the Danish paper. WHY? I would answer for the sake of forcing a confrontation. Remember that Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses had been out for some time before the perpetually outraged demanded a price on his head. What is selected as a "cause celebre" is instructive as to the differences between cultures.

I literally laughed out loud this morning over CNN's Daryn Kagen when her London reporter was broadcasting from a "Death to Denmark" mob scene which was interspersed with the image of one of the Mo-toons. Daryn was baffled. She asked, "Our image was pixilated. Can you tell our viewers what was the offensive part?" The drawing they had pixilated (!!!!! - wimps!) was the little green and black circular drawing of the Crescent moon which half-encircled Mohammed's (PeaceBeUponHim) face with a green star over one eye. Shocking!

The difference between a charge of "blasphemy" or a non-reaction rests in what title is attached to this benign and fairly non-descript little drawing. Had it read, "Manny," "Moe" or "Ahmed," there'd have been no calls of "Death to Denmark."  But titling it "Mohammed" is the crime.  Let's imagine all the toons including the most offensive unpublished ones are reprinted throughout the West but this time they say, "George," "Dick," or "Karl."  Won't matter to the hoards.  They will know what the artists REALLY meant, creating a worse conundrum for pixilating wussies. 

CNN should have allowed the images to be seen. American newspapers and magazines should print them in full-color. And why won't they? Out of cultural sensitivity? Hogwash! It is out of fear, rarely a noble motivation.

But is the messiness and the ugliness over cartoons? Mere symptoms and not the full-on disorder.

Someone described the situation a few years back saying that until we reached "The End of the Beginning" we will not be able to identify what's going on. Until the point it is generally recognized that our civilization is vulnerable and our way of life is threatened, we will be unfocused as to how to defend ourselves. We can blame Bush, blame Israel, blame America. Or, hey, blame Denmark. But that would be mere deflection on the order of what Flemming Rose said when asked if he regretted commissioning the cartoons. "Did the girl who was raped at the disco regret wearing a mini-skirt?"

Those of us in the laid back, laissez-faire West don't want to use alien expressions like "Clash of Civilizations" since it implies that we have to be on one side or the other and cannot simply Swiss-out as we'd much prefer to do.

But yes. How goes Europe will be the precursor to how goes this hemisphere.

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
21. Friday, February 3, 2006 12:46 PM
jordan RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark

 Admin
 Member Since
 12/17/2005
 Posts:2274

 View Profile
 Send PM

Jamie - saw your post and thought pretty much the same thing as Susan - some evil conservatives (and even some liberals) have been suggesting this very thing for years. Susan has posted these editorials type editorials for quite soem time. I think they were either a) ignored, b) scoffed at, or c) the author was called a variety of different names as to show they didn't know what they were talking about. Some of us have even suggested such a thing - it was only a matter of time. Europe's laxed immigration policies, along with the notion of "multiculturalism" has made Europe a quiet hotbed that I think Westerners have pretty much ignored or have gone along their own happy way not paying much attention to what was bubbling beneath them.

I think the ironic thing is that it's about a frickin' cartoon?!?

Meanwhile, in the US, the Washington Post published this cartoon showing a soldier who has had all four limbs removed, and the only outrage has come from the Pentagon and some radio hosts.

Meanwhile (and ongoingly), we got a bunch of "artists" who think throwing elephant dung on a painting of Mary, or throwing a crucifix in urine is "art." the outrage was large but nothing near riotious or even dangerous. And you sure didn't hear any God-fearing Christians declaring that someone's head should be cut off like one article quoted someone (I think a cleric).

And yet with regards to the latter, we seem to often hear comparisong between teh "dangerous" religious right and the "dangerous" Radical Islamist right - I won't mention any coughGavincough names.

But I think people are beginning to wake up - thankfully to what may be happening in Europe, and realizing that there is a problem here. Once people wake up fully, we can truly discuss that this isn't just a minor war between the West and a radical arm of Islam, but something much, much bigger.


Jordan .

 
22. Friday, February 3, 2006 1:23 PM
Jazz RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/19/2005
 Posts:2214

 View Profile
 Send PM

Oh much bigger indeed!

 

something else:

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States backed Muslims on Friday against European newspapers that printed caricatures of the Prophet Mohammad in a move that could help America's battered image in the Islamic world.

Inserting itself into a dispute that has become a lightning rod for anti-European sentiment across the Muslim world, the United States sided with Muslims outraged that the publications put press freedom over respect for religion.

"These cartoons are indeed offensive to the belief of Muslims," State Department spokesman Kurtis Cooper said in answer to a question.

"We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable."

He said he had no comment as to why the United States chose to pass judgment in a dispute that ostensibly does not involve America.

"We call for tolerance and respect for all communities for their religious beliefs and practices," he added.

The United States, which before the September 11 attacks was criticized for insensitivity to the Islamic culture, has become more attuned to Muslim sensibilities.

Accusations last year that U.S. officials desecrated the Koran sparked deadly riots in Asia and heightened that awareness.

Major U.S. publications have not republished the cartoons, which include depictions of Mohammad as a terrorist and offend believers as blasphemous.

In contrast, some European media responded to the criticism against the Danish newspaper that originally printed the caricatures by reproducing the images and fueled anger that has led to boycotts of Danish products and widespread protests.

Stephen Zunes, a professor of politics at the University of San Francisco and a Bush administration critic, said the United States was responsible for creating far more anger in the Muslim world because of its invasion of Iraq.

 


what a let down!

 


Jazz Theme

 
23. Friday, February 3, 2006 5:21 PM
nuart RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:7632

 View Profile
 Send PM

And from Indonesia, where they are offended as well. Oh, and in case you didn't know, today is the International Day of Fury over the cartoons.

Check out IslamOnline for bunches of stories on the REALLY Big News Story. CARTOONS!

http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml

I don't know about anyone else, but I cannot think of ANY visual image that would drive me to the streets in protest. Nothing! I'm trying to work up the worst I can imagine but I'm still not anywhere near the Fury Point. Anyone else?

Susan

 


Indonesian militants target Danes
04.02.06

JAKARTA
- Up to 300 militant Muslims went on a rampage yesterday inside the lobby of a Jakarta building housing the Danish Embassy in protest over cartoons that Muslims say insult Islam and the Prophet Mohammad.

Shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is Great) (Thanks for the translation! Like we haven't learned that much Arabic by now!), the white-clad protesters from the hardline Islamic Defenders Front (FPI) smashed lamps with bamboo sticks and threw chairs around in anger at cartoons originally published by a Danish daily newspaper.

Outrage has erupted in the Middle East after more European newspapers ran the cartoons, originally published by Jyllands-Posten last September.

Muslims consider any images of Mohammad to be blasphemous.

About 100 Indonesian policemen tried to restrain the protesters as they made fiery speeches calling on their Government to sever diplomatic ties with Denmark and evict its ambassador.

- REUTERS


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
24. Friday, February 3, 2006 4:17 PM
nuart RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:7632

 View Profile
 Send PM

Yeah, I'm disappointed too but from the get-go on September 12, 2001, Bush was telling us how Islam is a religion of peace. He has tried to maintain a separation between Jihadists and law-abiding Muslim-Americans and others.  Perhaps that is just the way the political angle is played. Or maybe he wants to lets Europe sway in the breeze. Or maybe there will be greater clarification later. I don't know.

If I were speaking for the US government, I think I'd say that our own values as Americans are about FREEDOMS (Bush says that often enough, doesn't he?) but that does not mean we are required to intentionally set out to insult those with whom we disagree on such fundamental issues as religion.

Then I'd add the big...

HOWEVER...

...since we do not have a state controlled press and since we do believe in free expression, even when it is offensive, I strongly back the rights of other sovereign nations to freely allow their own press to function independently from the state.  When a crime is committed, however badly one may believe he was provoked by thoughts, opinions, words or pictures, the perpetrators are to be held accountable according to the laws of the lands they inhabit. They may not impose their religious views on another society because they feelings have been hurt by symbolic images on paper or on a computer monitor.

Please understand that we intend to uphold OUR long held standards and have no plans to become adherents of Sharia.

Lastly, and I'm stealing this from an unknown source, I would suggest that the Prime Minister of Denmark, should he decide an apology is in order, travel to the largest church in Mecca for a public mea culpa. 

Thank you.

As for the link, CCC, that is too funny! The same happens with me. Let me try it again because it's a good website to keep bookmarked for the view from the other side.

http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml

Think that will work. Thanks for bringing that to my attention!

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
25. Friday, February 3, 2006 6:27 PM
nuart RE: Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


 Member Since
 12/18/2005
 Posts:7632

 View Profile
 Send PM

"Battle of Algiers" and another film about it are both on my Netflix queue as we speak!  I think it's next actually.  Looking forward to it since I've never seen it.

 Check out this link about a new book "While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying Europe From Within."  The comment section is particularly interesting. Unfortunately this book won't be out until later in the month so I can't pop into Barnes and Noble tonight. 

 http://www.rogerlsimon.com/mt-archives/2006/02/a_book_worth_a.php#comments

 I don't disagree with a word you wrote, CCC.

Susan 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 

New Topic | Post Reply Page 1 of 4 :: << | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | >>
Politics > Islam-West Culture Wars in Denmark


Users viewing this Topic (1)
1 Guest


This page was generated in 921 ms.