Did you see THE PRESTIGE?

I'm asking you an opinion because after watching Batman Begins I saw my disappointment started just a little bit with Insomnia (which I consider better than memento) come to me at full blast.

Actually I don't even know if I like Christopher Nolan's films anymore. I mean, also Memento has a lot of unlikeable moments... I hate that actor and the character he plays and, frankly, I don't give a damn about his wonderful  wife being killed. Who cares? There's a lot of other american movies in which the hero has lost his family members or similar things. It's an abused plot device that also plays on the piteous factor with easy-going audiences. But he doesn't fool ME!  And what about the way the movie presents the theme of criminal personal vendettas without putting it much into context. It's just gratuitious and instigating. Ok, it's a noir... Neo-noir! What a haughty name for a new genre. But it doesn't tell me nothing abotu film noir. The main character does not talk or looks like a character out of a film noir. He just acts like the ultimate Cruise and what it all comes down to is that he can solve his problems with the simple use of a gun. The film, under this perspecting, is not mind-numbing. It's mind-and-testicle-stabbing

The only thing that really intrigues me is the structure of it, but the rest is ... well, I don't exactly what it is. Anyway, if anyone's seen this movie, let me know if it's worth watching.

Anyway, I don't think Nolan is an indipendent film-maker anymore, since a long time by now.

I have to watch his film again during these holidays. Starting from Insomnia, then I'll rewatch Memento and then maybe Batman begins (very maybe). But I wanna know if The Prestige is any better than these or not.

From the sound of it, I don't think you'll like it. It's made like a big budget film, although the costume and set design and cinematography were all outstanding. Why try to enjoy a director you obviously don't like. I am not a fan of Roman Pulanski although he is very popular. The only movies of his I like are Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby and I can handle The Tenant or Repulsion but that's about it. But I don't subject myself to films I don't like. I can appreciate all the things you say about Memento. He is a dispicable character, but it does have noir characteristics. There is a femme fatale, our "hero" is an investigator (insuurance claims in this case, which smacks of Double Indemnity) and he keeps getting deeper and deeper trouble. On the other hand, all the reasons you don't like his other film makes me think you'll enjoy The Prestige. The performances are all good and the story ain't bad, but then you'll get to the end and say that was the stupidest ending you've ever seen. So, flip a coin. I like all three of Nolan's films, I would have liked to have gone downtown to meet him when he was filming Batman Begins in Chicago to shake his hand and tell him I appreciate his work.           

it's not that I don't like him, but I think that with Batman Begins he gave up trying to be original. And with this Harry Potter mania going on, a film called Prestige dealing with two friend magicians who become antagonists doesn't sound to me very appealing. Then, remaining in that magic genre, I prefer rewatching Scoop by Woody Allen where Allen plays a loser Houdini (Splendini is his name in the movie) that with a stage dematerializer actually materializes people from the world of the dead to uncover the mysteries surrounding the much worked on case of the Tarot killer (Jackman and Johannson both star in this flick and I found it refreshing comedy after the dramatic parenthesis of excellent dostoevskijan Match Point). 

Returning to Nolan, my hopes after Batman Begins were that he was willing to direct something new and distinctive, like Memento and Insomnia at least tried to be.

For me it's still the stand alone first film -- Following.  I loved that movie!  The next two - Memento and Insomnia - each left me successively more disappointed.  I cut my losses and quit Nolan,  not that I'd have gone to see a Batman movie anyway. Prestige I may see when the DVD comes out however.

Doesn't he look a bit like a mangled Jude Law or is it just me?

Oh, maybe it's just the photo... 

Susan 

Well, his appearance shouldn't influence the way you judge a movie he directed.

I mean, Scorsese is one freak monster but he directed one or two things that are to be considered masterpieces in the whole movie history!

memento to me has a very strong aesthetic value which is somewhat intangible. I think any film can be good even if it has conventional plot elements that you have mentioned. I thought the film had a very good ending with the speech in the car which intrigued me on a personal level.

insomnia is very much neutral to me. it's an entertaining film, and I quite liked its mood and, again, aesthetics. I still think it had a relevant element to the plot, but I definately like memento way more.

the prestige I enjoyed but don't really have much else to say about it. it intrigued me in many ways but I stick with memento as the best Nolan film. I also think it's a lot better than insomnia. I haven't seen batman begins. 

Well, his appearance shouldn't influence the way you judge a movie he directed.

Did I say his appearance influenced the way I judged his films? If I did, I guess it slipped my slippery mind.

I didn't even see the Fo-To until I posted it.

Susan 

Anyway, probably Nolan is a pretentious jerk. I watched Insomnia again with the audio commentary on and I think he doesn't say almost anything interesting from the beginning till the end. He kept saying Pacino acts wonderfully, that he's a master, taht everything is build around him. But if the director does tell me something like that, I feel treated like an idiot. Plus, rewatching it I found the film a little tedious, but in a positive way. It still has a great amount of tension and atmosphere and a feeling perceived by the audience that is authentical anguish.

Mmmh... Yeah, but I'm kinda curious to see the original anyway. Can you tell me the precise title, so I can try to see if I can check it out on the net?

The Prestige did make me think a lot afterwards about the nature of sacrifice and the way sometimes people are unwilling to give things up to be great.  The film to me sort of exemplified the other end, people who would give up everything for their art, but then their lives become meaningless because their work is all they truly have.  It wasn't necessarily Nolan's directing that I loved, but his writing is amongst the best to me, though I have not seen his Insomnia or Batman movie...

-cg

Insomnia has some very good points to it and I'm starting to believe it's his best work ever, and it happens to be also a remake (hope I will find the original someday), so... Good for him that he's been able to make such an achievement, at least on the artistic and aesthetical level.

Batman for me was very disappointing on almost each level, but most of all I think Nolan should have never directed it and now I'm worrying about Dark Knight because I can't believe the director of Memento chose to do this kind of crappy movies. And you can tell me: "Well, he has to 'feed' his women and children (if he's got any) and pay them good restaurants, private schools and so on... You don't pay good schools if you keep doing things like Memento or Following". But he quit being an interesting director to my eyes if he keeps doing this shit.

Anyway, I think I'll check The Prestige out, but not giving away my money

Okay, I watched it.

I don't regret saying that Nolan's an actual manipulator of genres and the film industry nowadays. He started this tricky game along with the audience with Batman begins and now he's totally dragged in. Yes, the production design and the cinematography were outstanding, as Smokie said, but that's it. Frankly, I have to say that Bale and Jackman are too similar in the way they appear in this movie and the acting, especially Jackman's, disappointed me. Bowie's appearance stroke me though. It's a pity that he doesn't play more chracters in movies, because he's really good. Moreover, Johansson's presence is really useless and that's a pity because I love her as an actress who's both good in the acting and gorgeous in her appearance, but I think the hollywood industry is using her too much now and if she doesn't stop being used as a screen whore just for her beauty, she'll end up being considered wrongly, just over her actual values. 

The movie was kind of interesting until it became blatant that it was not only about these two illusionists' obsession with each other, but also a Science fiction/Fantasy flick. The whole turning point in the end annoyed me and I found it ridiculous. It would have been much better if Nolan made it clear since the beginning that it was a fantasy movie.In that case, I would have accepted the game. Thinking of it, the movie reminded me a lot of Back to the future, especially with those lightinings coming out of the transportation machine. But I hate the Zemeckis' trilogy about time travelling, and that's all I have to say on that genre.

Nolan had the chance to affirm himself a master of the noir genre with this film, if only he had focused more on the two main characters' development. But he preferred enjoying the glory of the moment he's living and he produced an average movie on magic that doesn't add nothing to the genre, which I think has never been too exhaustive in my opinion.

Spoilers abound, so watch yourself:

Well, in the end, just to play the devil's advocate, the movie was not about magic at all.  The Jackman trick was a)scientific, not magical, and b)not of his own making.  The thing that made it interesting to me was that the obsession with defeating a rival and getting revenge became more important than the act itself.  Then it became apparant that each of the characters is willing to die for this victory.  I tried to picture each night what it would be like for the Jackman who actually does drown himself.  That person knows that they're going to die, and even if there is a replica made of them that appears elsewhere and has those same thoughts, the one that's dieing still feels the mortality.  As for the twin twist, yeah, it was cheap, but it also made you realize how crazy that character is, that he has now lost all of the most important people in his life to fulfill his obsessions.  This was the aspect of the film that I enjoyed most.

-cg

Yes, but it's a redundant, typically hollywoodian way of telling a story of such an obsession. Don't you think?

OTHER SPOILERS

Moreover, it could have been a believable science if the film took place nowadays (and by the way, in reality there are NO fancy machines producing electricity lightnings that are capable of creating a clone that looks the way you look in that moment of your life. There are no human clones yet, from what I know because there is so much controversy on this theme and even if they let scientists proceed, the clone of me would be a 0 years old mr. silencio, not a 23 years old mr. silencio). So it's ridiculous and unbelievable to think that such a thing was possible in the 19th Century!

 I mean, the movie had a set-up that made it look like a very good drama movie. It was dense, dark and with a sense of closure but at the same time it became wider as it proceeded towards its ending. But those final twists made the film suddenly narrower, because all it was about was that you were dealing with a story of real magic (Fantasy genre) and cloning (Sci-Fi genre). For me, there's no narrower things like fantasy and sci-fi movies in this world, even though they look wonderful and fascinating and with that characteristic, the guys in Hollywood, they have all my admiration. But it doesn't work, with an audience like me, if the project is that ambitious.

 Please do not insult my intelligence.  The "mechanics" of the science project in the film are irrelevant, as it's a suspension of disbelief thing.  I don't think the process could have been called "cloning" either, as cloning has seemed to be the reproduction through genetic structure, whereas the way it worked in the film seemed to be through electrical displacement, which of course, doesn't really work.  I thought bringing Tesla in to it was kind of cool though, as that extreme rivalry between himself and other scientists of the time was very real.

-cg

Of course I know there's suspension of disbelief, but with this film it doesn't work out properly. I mean, the movie lasts almost 2 hours and a half. He should have delivered each element more organically throughout the plot.  Nolan tricked the audience too late in the movie. He should have introduced Tesla's character much earlier and clear the fact that besides the illusions there is also *real magic* in this movie.

I think Memento is a truly great film... really clever and wonderful, with great perforances all around. Following was a kind of cool little game, but the film totally lacks any kind of characters or performances... it's a small, interesting little thriller but nothing more. Insomnia is really wonderful... I don't think it's as good as Memento, but somehow I like it better... Pacino is incredible in that movie... probably my favorite performance of his I've seen so far. Batman Begins was disappointing... a decent action movie, but it's really overblown, and it's no bigger or more important, than Following was... though it's much longer. Nowhere near Tim Burton's amazing Batman films (though I must say that Bale is the best Batman yet). The Prestige was much better; highly enjoyable and very captivating, with good perfomances... but the plot got too wacky, and it's not even close to Memento and Insomnia. Anyway I'm a Nolan fan, but I'm disappointed with the route he's taken... I'm hoping that after The Dark Knight, he'll go back to thrillers... I'll definitely continue to watch his films though... and he's much better than another up and coming young filmmaker: the way overrated Darron Aranofsky.

Yeh, I totally agree with each word you've said.... Except that I wanna see The Fountain as soon as it is out in the italian theatres, because I think it will be a nice experience and the couple Weisz/Jackman, I think is very good. I watched a scene taking place in a bathroom and it grabbed me for no particular reason (maybe it fascinated me even more because I couldn't understand what they're saying). Anyway, I think the movie will be more like a sort of journey in a fantasy world, right? I still don't know what it is about really, ahaha

I really liked it. Reminded me that there needs to be a whole film made just about Tesla. Maybe an unfair comparison, but this was so much better than The Illusionist.

And, do see The Fountain, it's great.

Nolan happens to be one of my favorite directors working right now. Each one of his films brings something fresh to the thriller genre. Memento is still a favorite long after the novelty of its structure has worn off. Insomnia is very effective as well, featuring the two male leads at the top of their game. The fact that he's taking my childhood obsession () in a serious new direction is also immensely exciting.

All that being said, I can't say that I've loved all of his films, but I'm seldom bored. (Except during most The Prestige, unfortunately.) Though I loved his take on Batman in Begins, after about five or six viewings I realize that much of it is really effective with the prospect of sequels taken into account (which will be even better than the first, I'm sure). Following is a very promising first effort, with many of Nolan's stylistic and storytelling touches already on display. But after watching it, Insomnia seems like almost the same story (yes, a remake, I know, but the similarities are there).

Also, take a look at the titles to his movies. Started with three one-word titles (Following, Memento, Insomnia) then broke that rule with Batman Begins, and now he seems to have moved into a "The" phase (The Prestige, The Dark Knight, The Prisoner, if those plans come through).

I enjoy Nolan's films too...I mean, I own all of them so I must like him a little...I really liked The Prestige although I can't compare it to The Illusionist since I ain't seen it yet...I think Batman Begins was very good indeed, I know, I am sucker for Michael Caine in any role and Bale is great...I still like Michael Keaton a lot in the first of Burton's two Batmans...Batman Returns, well, I really didn't like it that much...I only saw it once, so who knows what a second viewing could do...I wish I could have made it downtown to meet Nolan when he was filming Batman Begins that would have been too cool and if I could have met Caine...I might have gone into convuslions since I have been a big fan of his for so long now.      

It just occured to me that if you say Nolan backwards in a southern accent you get the word nylon.

I'm not crazy about most pure pop music, and I find a lot of experimental music to be more interesting on paper than in reality. I find that the music I do like usually tries to find some interesting place in between to live.

For that reason, it doesn't surprise me at all that Nolan is a big Radiohead fan, and to me the similarity of approach is the reason the Thom Yorke song fits in the closing credits, when it really shouldn't.

Anyway, I like the film, having finally seen it tonight. It looked fantastic, the performances, directing, and writing all worked for me, and I was involved the whole way through. The development at the end didn't bother me at all; by the time that multi-layer reveal starts rolling, it's already been broadly hinted at that Borden's side of the trick may involve something strangely metaphysical, and I consider that fair warning to prepare for unlikely scenarios to emerge.

And by the last scene, the film has morphed itself into a kind of fantasy-horror. That's when it tricks us a final time -- we've been thinking of Borden as the first among the two leads, the darker, driving force of the story, capable of anything. By the end, it's clearly Angier who has a far more malevolent obsession. The death of his wife is his excuse for his vengeful path, but his argument with Olivia suggests that he's driven primarily by his need to best Borden and achieve for himself the small-p prestige of that victory -- so much so that he is willing to kill himself, twice nightly.

Very well put, Jaime. I recommend this film to a lot of people at the bar and one thing I tell them that it is a beautiful looking, extremely well-put together. The cinematography, set direction, costume design, script, performances everything gels in this film and I dare say it is Nolan's best film or at least right around the greatness of Memento, which has a "minimal" beauty because of the subject matter and time frame, but all the parts of the whole have a satisfying cohesiveness in that film too.     

Wow, I wish I saw what you did in that film. Though entertaining, and featuring good performances, I wouldn't dare mention it in the same sentence as Nolan's great films Memento and Insomnia.