True story.

A couple of nights ago I'm riding in the subway, on my way home from work. I'm slouched there, listening to my depressing music and staring blankly out the window at nothing. Recent events seem designed to force me into making a major life decision for which I feel I don't yet have the necessary information, and lately I'm resenting it; this particular night I'm in my foulest mood of recent memory over the whole thing.

A group of six or seven young people, ranging from maybe 14 to 16, dressed like they're trying to be Cool™, come racing into the car at one stop, full of bluster and noise. They annoy me, and I try to ignore them.

After another stop or two, I notice waving in my peripheral vision; one of the group is flagging my attention.

I look over. He's holding a playing card towards me. He quickly waves his hand across it and it changes to another card. He wasn't totally smooth -- I could see his motion behind his front hand -- but it's an amusing surprise and I smile.

So the kid runs over and sits beside me. He pulls out a full deck, fans them, and tells me to pick one. I do. I put it back in the deck. He shuffles the deck, then flips through it slowly, face-up. When he's done, if I've seen my card, I'm supposed to say Yes, and I did, so I do.

He tells me it was the ten of spades, which it was. Then it's my stop, so I thank him and leave.

In the tarot, the ten of spades is the Ten of Swords: Ruin. One of its primary connotations is martyrdom, feeling set-upon by the world, wallowing in the perceived misery of one's own situation. I needed a little bit of perspective, and the world provided it in a language I could translate.

Hail Eris.

Perfect story, Jamie! I could see the whole thing unfolding as I read. I could even hear your depressing music. Nick Drake maybe?  You know, my basic theory of life is that we all need a certain level of mysticism, spiritualism, super-naturalism - call it what you like. Some are needier than others and require the seemingly orderly constraints of a strict religious dogma or they feel asea. Hey, there are some for whom politics fills that need. But we find it where we will. For you that day, it was in the subway and with a knowledge of Tarot.

Your wishful thinking about the benefits of stifling the natural parental desire to pass along whatever spiritual-mystical-supernatural-religious wisdom a mom or dad believes they've discovered will not alleviate the floundering. I suppose one can go through life picking and choosing an eclectic poo-poo platter of exotica from a myriad of sources but it is just as likely to lead to greater confusion with lesser clarity.

The journey's a trip though, isn't it?

Recent events seem designed to force me into making a major life decision for which I feel I don't yet have the necessary information, and lately I'm resenting it; this particular night I'm in my foulest mood of recent memory over the whole thing.

Love me or leave me? Full on commitment or hit the road? Maybe something else altogether but it sounds like an affaire de la coeur.  Oh well. It's kinda cute that you imagine you will ever in a lifetime "have the necessary information." Tee hee. I'm not laughing at you, either, Jamie. You know I care!

I'm only serious too.

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

I only want enough information to tip the scale... Is that asking so dang much?  (Don't answer that.)

Sadly, it's no "affaire de la coeur" -- in fact, it centers around the likelihood of a relocation (Montreal to Vancouver) being necessary, and sooner rather than later, which is in fact discouraging me from pursuing one particular affair here.  (The first date was hilariously unproductive in the romantic sense, but recent signals suggest that she might not find a second try objectionable.)

An upside, of course, would be proximity to the Fest.  But as much as I look forward to drinks and hijinx with the Gazetteers, there are heavier weights in play in this balancing act.

Also, as you know, I am pathologically egalitarian, which means after I think about a situation long enough every feasible possibility starts to look as good as every other...
 

I can't even begin to tell you how HOT it is that you know your Tarot.

~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

It's funny 'cause it's true, and also 'cause it's funny. (But if you're looking for an argument, I think you want the FIFA thread.)

Fixed.

I actually can't do a reading without a book beside me, and I had to look up the Ten of Swords when I got home to be sure. I'm more of an enthusiast.

Fffft. I still have to look up most of the cards myself. Sssshhhh...don't tell. :P

I do, however, know my runes. So. Feel free to touch me and feel my awesomeness. Or something.

~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

Googling to understand a pun can be a rewarding experience. Not exactly spiritual, though. More sad.

Logic Hat Online- logichat.org

I overhead 2 of the young secretaries from work chatting the other day.  They started by scoffing at people who follow star signs.  Like they are just so stupid to believe that rubbbish...

Then...one of them went on to say that she had done a tarot session, and was talking about what the cards meant etc.  The other one saw the irony, and then told her next time to just use a regular deck of cards and make up her own fortunes - it'd do her just as good.

Do people here seriously follow tarot cards?  star signs?  rock readings?  palm readings?  Does the fact that many of these are done by carnival/entertainer types give away that it's a sideshow attraction and not meant to be taken seriously?

I dunno...so long as people see it as a bit of fun, but the danger is when people start basing their decisions on a random card, or what someone's imagined up for a star sign that day.

Ohhh, what's the difference? It doesn't matter from what ether it comes from, if you're in a rut and something "spiritual" encourages you to take control of your life, good for you.

Doesn't matter if it's palm-reading, snake-handling, astrology, transcendental meditation, LSD, religious rapture, sexual pleasure, past-life regression, yoga, near-death experience, E-meters, mantra, or baptism, as long as it leads to something positive and doesn't harm anyone in the meantime, it's all fair game. Personally, I find myself taking comfort in the most concrete and no-nonsense of ideas (though there's always room for a little nonsense as well). Just don't pretend like any one bit of it has more merit than t'other.

Please note: the preceding was written by a cautious and open-minded atheist, or cautheist. If that makes any of the above ring less true, may Dog strike me down.

Logic Hat Online- logichat.org

Tarot cards, astrology, cabala, all that stuff -- to me they're primarily organizational systems for ideas.  Sometimes when your mind is thirsty for a certain idea, it shows up as a metaphor rather than directly, but some people end up worshipping the messenger instead of reading the message.

To believe in an actual mystical element to any system like this distills down to attributing god status to chance.  I'm fairly comfortable with that, myself, but it remains an operational theory rather than a Belief System.

I read my sun sign astrological forecast pretty much daily in the newspaper.  I don't believe in it at all.  But I like the way they're written, and like fortune cookies, once in a while there's a bit of good advice.  Usually I forget it when I turn the page.

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Exactly.

Anything I have read that explains tarot, runes, or other divination systems stresses the fact that these are not going to tell you the future. Even the Book of Runes says that this isn't fortune-telling or giving you a solid answer to a question in life. It's merely suggestions on how you might approach a situation or a fork in the road. Or even how you want to proceed in your day. I know people who draw a rune or tarot card every morning to give them a little guidance on how to approach the day. It's no different than someone praying for guidance from God or Christ. At the core, things like tarot are tools of a religion or belief system.

Yes, there are plenty of arseholes out there who will use them to make money and get people to believe that their entire future can be foretold with a pack of cards or a handful of sticks, but there are also evangelists who slap you with their coat and tell you that you've been touched by God and are now healed and by the way leave a penance at the door. It happens with almost every religion because the world is unfortunately rife with opportunists who are more than happy to take advantage of many folks' strong belief in a higher power of their choosing. To crap on someone else's belief system because of these opportunists is unfair. You have the freedom to follow your religious beliefs, it would be nice to allow others the same courtesy without having pointy barbs lobbed at them for your amusement.

CybacaT, I don't hold to Christian beliefs, but I'm not about to make fun of you because you pray to God.

For someone who is always placing themselves intellectually and morally above the rest of us on damn near every topic you post in, you are awfully judgmental and close-minded. Try not to get a nosebleed up there on your self-built pedestal, hun.

Oh, and for the record? I don't practice pagan religions either. I'm not quite an atheist, yet I'm not really agnostic. I believe that higher powers exist, but as far as I'm concerned, they're mother nature, planet earth, and my own internal struggle to understand myself better.

~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

I disagree with you about tarot cards not being dangerous.  I know from first hand experience of the dangers of tarot cards, Ouji boards, candles, etc...  And what it did to me by being involved in these things and I also disagree with you about it being the same thing and same experience with God.  It isn't.  I have done both and the Holy Spirit is a much different encounter than what I encounter with tarot cards, ouji boards etc... 

There are some forms of astrology that I believe in.  It isn't the stuff you see on news stands or stores.  Because God used a star to point the way to Jesus.  Just like God used some signs in the skies to point the way to what is happening and about to happen.  

I know that people have abused religion, but there are times when people have laid hands on me and it was a real encounter with God.  If it was the same.  Why would Jesus say He is the only way?  I am sorry if this offends anyone, because I really don't care what you believe.  Just giving you some of what I believe.  God Bless,  

Why are you sorry if you don't care what we believe anyway? It's fine if you don't agree with my opinions, but cut the insincerity. Don't apologize when you don't care. I'm certainly not upset or offended if you don't care and don't apologize. I doubt others are either.

I would be curious to know more about your negative dealings with tarot and ouija. What happened?
 

~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

Just to throw a complete spanner in the works, I do believe in God and I use tarot cards myself, for my own personal use. I would suggest that tarot cards, ouija, etc can only be 'dangerous' or 'evil' if used by the wrong people; the kind of people who have these personality traits inherently within them. I don't for one second consider myself, or Manda for that matter (as she mentioned using them) as the wrong people.

I tend to draw three cards most mornings to have a look-see how my morning; afternoon; evening are possibly going to pan out. I say possibly because I would never rely on them to tell me exact details; I just like using them. I also collect different decks. Anyhoo...

I don't shove my religious beliefs down other people's throats and I don't think any less of anyone for their own personal beliefs. To expect people to take on board your views. and then follow them up with a statement indicating you don't care about their beliefs , or what they have to say in return, amazes me. My personal point of view on that is it's very rude to do so, but obviously that doesn't bother you anyway.

PS: I am interested in touching the Rune Lady. To whom do I apply for molesting privileges?

My theory by A. Elk, brackets, Miss, brackets. This theory goes as follows and begins now. All brontosauruses are thin at one end, much much thicker in the middle, and then thin again at the far end. That is my theory, it is mine, and it belongs to me, and I own it, and what it is, too.

Ange's Odyssey

JVSCant - you have a very interesting perspective - one that I haven't heard before.  Thanks for that.

Amanda - sincere apologies for the offence my post caused you.  There were a couple of sentences there that I should have had in quotes because they aren't necessarily my opinions, but were part of the conversation going on.  The last sentence and summation was basically how I feel about the issue.  FWIW, I feel I'm allowed to have my own pov without being labelled as judgemental, high and mighty etc.

I posted I thing talking about what happened with the Ouja board etc...  For some reason it didn't go through and I could not save it.  So I am going to post it tommerow.

When I said I don't care what you believe I should have said it better.  What I mean is that it does not matter to me.  That I can't convince anyone about Jesus.  All I can do is share the news about the Kingdom and the cross.  I am not saying what you believe does not matter.  All religions has good and bad points, but I don't think Jesus is a religion. 

When I talk about the Ouja board etc...  It is to tell people about what happened to me and the darkness that came with it, but I will share more on that tommerow or later tonight.  God bless you.

I tried sending this through a few times last night, but it would not go.

Anyway, I started looking at tarot cards at a very young age.  They didn't really seem to do anything except getting me interested in going deeper into the occult.  The same way with candle burning.  It wasn't until the Ouja board that problemes really came.

It started out as just a joke with some friends and I playing around with the board.  We thought it was somehow cool how the lights would blink on and off and the strange noises we would hear in the house etc....  But the more I did it the more powerful I felt and the more darker I felt.  I would even do the board alone and it would work.  The more and more I did the board the more and more depressed I seemed to get.  I often wanted to kill myself or others.  I would have dreams of raping people and killing people and the dreams became more and more. 

I don't think the board was the cause of all of this because at the time I had just got done being sexually molested for years by a member of my family.  And I also had a porn addiction.  I would later want to be more involved in the porn industry and direct porn movies.  It never happened though.

Anyway, while doing the board I would sometimes see shadows.  Things would come into my bedroom and slap me across the face.  I had a stroke!  The doctors could never solve what caused the stroke and my mind felt funny.  I began to hear voices and I didn't realize it until later but my personality was spliting.  Now, my personality began to split some at a young age because of the sexual abuse but now it was more.  I just didn't know it at the time.  Years later I would even have memory loss ect when I would become someone else.

Anyway, I felt like the board was becoming a problem and I gave it up.  I remember the day I through it away and I said good bye to my board.  The board then said "We will always be here".

For a few weeks or months after getting rid of the board.  I will still be visited by spirits and strange things.  Like things disappearing at the house.  Getting hit.  Seeing shadows.  Feeling things crawling on my arms and legs.  I was also becoming more and more interested in porn and I asked a porn star about the bussiness and she told me she would produce anything I wrote if it had Native Americans in it, because she was starting a production company.  I was also emailing another porn star and writing a script for her.  My idea was to make money in porn and then move over into regular movies when I had enough money to make a low budget movie like Clerks or She's Gotta Have It.

My Mom had been praying for me like crazy during this time and she gave me a book called Understanding God.  I began to read that book one night while working at the nursing home.

The Holy Spirit entered the room.  I could hear His foot steps.  He felt different than any other spirit I had encounter.  For one thing he felt pure and like love.  It also made me feel just how dirty the unclean spirits were.  Before they had felt cool or interesting and now they felt dirty.  I am not going to go into great detail about the encounter with the Holy Spirit here, but it was awesome.  Words can not do justice the love I felt and still feel when He enters the room.  It is greater than any kind of high that a person can feel and you don't feel bad afterwards.  He healed me from some of the unclean spirits but others He left there.  And I am unsure why.  I think some to teach me how to war in the spirit.  Because you don't know what you go until you are faced with an enemy.  But others He made leave.

One night I was at a church service and a pastor that had been helping me work through all of my problems was there.  He was one of the few.  Everyone else at the church seemed to label and judge me because I didn't come from a perfect house hold like many of them seemed to come from.  It was interesting though that after they judged me that they began to be exposed and was involved with all kinds of bad things. 

Anyway, during this church meeting.  I was thrown to the ground by an unseen force.  Things began to speak through me as the pastor cast them out.  I began to have all of the symtoms of a stroke again and he cast out the stroke!  He also cast out tarot readings and S&M.  I had not been involed in S&M other than looking at it and getting lap dances from girls involved in it.  He cast out a whole lot of things.  I would go through that a few other times and then God began to heal my personailty and making me one person.  I still have some problems today, but I have also grown in my authority over them and have had many wonderful encounters with the Holy Spirit and The Kingdom Of God.  I could go into detail about that but this post is becoming very long, LOL.

One thing I have began to understand about the Holy Spirit is that His judgments are good and not what I usaully see on christian tv.  What I mean by that is that I have never met anyone so kind, so wonderful and so tender as the Holy Spirit and when I come under the judgment of God it isn't things like God is going to blow up a building or anything like that.  It is more like making things right in my life and others things like you have been wounded and now I am going to heal it.  You have been undone and now I am going to make you done.  It has been more like that.  A wonderful encounter. 

I hope this gives you better understanding.  God Bless.

... You said it.

That's a rough story, but honestly, just because the Holy Spirit felt pleasant doesn't mean that it wasn't caused by the same other things that caused the shadows, the crawly things and the bad ideas.  Traumatic experiences can make a person more than a little suggestible.  I'm glad you found something that gives you comfort, but I hope you are seeing to your psychological wellness in other ways, too.

*******

I used to rip people off reading tarot and runes for money.  Well, maybe it wasn't a rip off because in general, the person you're reading for sees what they want to see, giving them answers to their problems that were already inside themselves. It helps people think about things by confronting them in a different way.  Like talking to a friend, you just feel a bit more focused after a reading.  

Chien Tung fortune sticks are also helpful like that.  

A harrowing tale, Kevin. I don't know how old you are but the trauma you endured as a child eroded the natural course of your development. There are lifetime ramifications for victims of such crimes. There is also the ugly truth that most molesters began as molestees, thereby compounding the societal and psychic damage and making it a cross-generational problem.

You don't say which family member but I hope that person was prosecuted. Hopefully that person is incarcerated too for such a person does not suddenly quit their crimes just because one victim has outgrown their appeal.

As I read your story, I kept recalling a psychiatrist, who was known as an anti-psychiatrist, RD Laing. Well, he had a different approach than Freud. Laing suffered depression himself and upon reflection in later years, commented that with the hundred plus years of the field of psychiatry, humankind had not benefited from the practice any more than could be experienced with a friend-to-friend chat every so often . Something like that.

Here is a very interesting description of the man and his work. It seems to me it couldn't hurt to add another source of knowledge to your quest. Life often requires a multi-pronged approach especially when one suffered such grave injustices during childhood. Don't be afraid of considering some good psychiatric treatment from a facility that specializes in child sexual abuse either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._D._Laing

I think what has caused many of your Gazette posts to be taken less than seriously is their missionary zeal. They have a heady euphoria that others might find dubious, knowing full well that the heights and depths of emotion are also the most transcient. Plus, there's this thing we all have -- this human trait of wanting to find our own way without someone buttonholing us to tell us, "No, this is THE way."

It's a long journey, Kevin. Pace yourself. Good luck.

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin