Is it too soon??

What's the difference between Alaska and Virginia Tech?

- Nothing - they're both minus 33.

Susan- I'd just like to say that FM and I read that article together and thought it was the most relevant thing said thus far. To comment on that a little late

Hindsight is always 20/20 and it's not just with anticipating the next person who is going to go postal, which just can't be done. If there are people out there who are that apt judges of character (read: precognitives) there aren't enough to go out and find the true bad needles in the haystack before they do their damage. Looking to couselors, or expecting peers to begin witch hunts on the weird loners with morbid imaginations and bad social skills would be like stricter gun control laws in the US: a false sense of security that will in all likliehood prevent nothing.

It's got nothing to do with hunting. The 2nd Amendment exists, and we use it as it works for us: putting guns in the hands of people we hope will be responsible, trying to prevent them from being owned by those who are not (within reason.) The laws are fallible, like drug laws, and always will be. But the amendment is really about keeping a country that earned it's freedom with gun violence to be able to defend it's freedom with gun violence.

And any gun can have the desired effect if you're talking self defense, that's a non issue.

So glad you and FM liked that article, Angel. Niall Ferguson is a brilliant mind. A true hybrid. Scotsman who studied at Oxford. His field was literature, history and economics and he blends them all with style. He is now teaching at Harvard. Very handsome too! He writes a regular op-ed piece for the LA Times.

Cybacat's analysis from afar of the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution is worthy of a chuckle. Thinking he has neatly explained why it doesn't apply to private gun ownership, but only the "well-regulated militia." Rather than a chuckle I suppose a is in order.  Or maybe a EUREKA!

Funny because there have been stacks of tomes written on the subject, arguing the original intent with gazquillions of words. But Cyba makes short order of the arguments and blithely declares the success of his own brief analysis.  "You've all been wrong."  and "You've been manipulated by a powerful lobby group, without whom you'd willingly hand over those weapons."

Sigh...

But let us test this theory with those most likely to confront the long held mistinterpretation of the 2nd Amendment. Tonight the eight (so far) Democratic candidates for the presidency are holding their first debate. No doubt the issue of the Virginia Tech massacre will be raised. Expect very little distinction between most of their positions on a citizen's right to own firearms. Do not expect to hear that the 2nd Amendment only applies to that well-regulated militia and that private gun ownership has been unconstitutional all these years. That should tell you something if you still cling to the belief that this prevailing interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, which has stood a two centuries plus test of time, is only upheld because of the NRA's "stranglehold" on Washington DC.

But, if Cyba is right, I'd expect the frontrunning candidates -- Hillary, Obama and Edwards -- to bravely face down the NRA and talk about THEIR plan to buy back privately held guns and ban new gun sales. If they believe their Democratic constituents are largely of that Aussie opinion, now is the perfect time for these three at least to stand down the NRA.

Don't hold your breath.

Not gonna happen.

Well, maybe Kucinich will. But I'll eat my hat if any of the top three Democratic presidential candidates suggest bans and buy-backs. Throw in Biden, Dodd or Bill Richardson. They won't go against the prevailing tide either. When it is time for the Republican candidates first debate, I'll go a step further and eat my entire wardrobe of shoes if Rudy, John, or Mitt make a Cyba suggestion.

While there is probably few Americans who wouldn't like to see a smaller number of gun deaths, the percentage who would vote to seize existing guns from their homes and ban all future sales is equally small. Even if Cyba met all of them during his visits to the Land of the Free.

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Lest we forget that both Gore and Kerry went on a "hunt" during their campaigns to prove to gun-totin' americans that they can handle themselves with a gun.

Can't remember who it was but I do indeed remember the question of whether or not one of the candidates actually shot his own goose....

Jordan .

I have a mental image of Kerry in his camoflauge get-up holding a shot-gun (or rifle?  I don't know the nomenclature).

Here's an interesting article from Wikipedia on the evolution and history of the Second Amendment .  

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

12rainbow

You're right - there's no way to predict who will go postal next - especially in a large population.

Which is why calls to ignore the gun issue, but instead focus on mental health are deluded.

You CAN'T tell where the next whacko is going to come from.  Some perfectly sane and balanced person might have a series of events that pushes them over the edge.

What you CAN do is limit the damage they cause by making weapons of mass killing unavailable.  You make an excellent case for greater gun control.

Susan

But Cyba makes short order of the arguments and blithely declares the success of his own brief analysis. 

I made my case Susan...and there was nothing else put up against it, despite you having plenty of opportunity.  Perhaps like Bush I had declared victory a tad prematurely?  At least you got a chuckle, so my efforts weren't totally wasted!

Your wiki on the 2nd was very interesting reading - and despite your claims to contrary, this article makes clear there has been a long history of division in your country regarding this amendment, and even more division of it's interpretation!  Even going down to the punctuation marks, and their effect!  So it's far from a set-in-stone, universally agreed principle that individuals have the right to have guns, and to claim so is just dishonest. 

As for the move for tigher gun laws being popular in the US - you don't know, I don't know - we can only speculate.  My point is that in recent decades there has not been a free debate in your country - and you well know it.  You're right - Democrats and Republicans alike fear speaking on the subject, because even the tiniest, remotest inkling of gun control unleashes the bloody hound that is the NRA, ready to devote it's considerable resources and lobbying power on their unwitting victims.

While there is probably few Americans who wouldn't like to see a smaller number of gun deaths, the percentage who would vote to seize existing guns from their homes and ban all future sales is equally small.

You may be right - but in a democracy a free debate on the subject should be possible, and let the majority decide. 

Even if Cyba met all of them during his visits to the Land of the Free.
Actually, I don't recall meeting 1 person who was for gun control when I lived in the US.  Most of them were waaaaay over the other side of the debate.  So while they were great mates, and would kill me for my current beliefs on this topic, I still place the value of human life over their right to hunt - which is why they had guns - not to "bear arms" as part of some imaginary militia.

This murdering whacko lived with his family in SAUDI ARABIA for ten years prior to coming to America, so they could realize their dream of opening a drycleaning business. Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of Wahabi Islam, the call to Shari'a Fundamentalism and Jihad.

On his arm, he had written in a red sharpie, ISHMAEL AX. Don't forget that Ishmael was the bastard son of Avram (Abraham), through his housekeeper. Whe Isaac was born to Sarah, Ishmael and his mother were banished to the desert. From Ishmael's line was Islam born.

The return address on his NBC package was to A. ISHMAEL. What does that tell you!?

Um, has anyone looked into the wahabi jihad aspect of this? Do you know that the name of a dead man in Arabic is written in red? Not that of a living man?

This attack has nothing to do with gun control. It is all about Jihad against America and the West.

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

More of the usual Islamophobia from Mr Chuckles then.

Cho was a muslim? A jihadist? Oh please.

An English Lit major... Moby Dick? 

x-ray
if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...

From everything I've read, Cho was a lapsed Christian angry with just about everyone and everything. His one affinity for others was when he expressed camaraderie with the Columbine killers. His final ramblings, after a lifetime of being nearly mute, describe his end as a "crucifixion." I don't think there was any jihadist element in this guy notwithstanding the "A. Ishmael" on his Express Mail envelope to NBC or the words "Ismael Ax" written on his arm. He flung about a hodgepodge of references in his final days of self-recorded ramblings. . No doubt there was a private logic to them, but I think we are wrong to draw a greater world attribution to his personal demons. From all reports, this guy was malformed and broken way back to his early childhood years in Korea.  If there had been a way to remedy his problems, it was never discovered.  

Here's another article I "dug up." I'm always at least a day behind on the WSJ since that's how long it takes my neighbors to pass theirs along to me.  The Wall Street Journal stands almost alone among print dailies in being nearly fully staffed by writers with functional minds.  The subject here is identifying potential classroom time bombs and defusing them with the help of their peers and campus authorities. It's ONE angle. It's NOT about USA's gun laws or "30,000 gun deaths per annum."  It's specifically about this thread's subject -- university shootings in Virginia and other similar school shootings.

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

I may quote this next time we have a thread on universal health care.  Or SUVs. 

Gun control?  Who needs it?  How about this?

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Yeah - that'll work!!

I'd like to post this concept which I have patched together from 2 other columnists : It is just a question.

Speaking of which, has anyone else noticed the public expressions of shame and contrition from the Korean-American community after the Virginia Tech shooting? Of course, no one blames this exemplary community for the actions of one nut. The Koreans are manifestly law-abiding and decent — nipping at the heels of Italians    [ YES ! -inserted by Raymond he he    ]   as the greatest Americans and tied for second with the Cubans.

Indeed, I believe this marks the first time a Korean has killed anyone in the United States, not involving an automobile. Nonetheless, Korean congregations, community groups and the family members themselves are issuing statements of sorrow. Not "pleas for tolerance." But sorrow. Remorse. Remember those? They were big back in the day.

If the Koreans can do it, why can't the Muslims? What explains the lack of a Muslim guilt impulse — so normal, as seen in the case of the saddened Koreans — after dozens of terrorist attacks on Americans?