No, I had no idea a war was coming in 2000-that is true. But I do feel sincerely sorry for every family just going about there lives as best they could under Sadam that lost a family member or had their home destroyed in Iraq 2. The fact so many were being gassed and shot and tortured for years before doesn't change that feeling. The feeling of saddness goes out to all of them. And of course to all the coalition casualties as well. It hurt when I read that 9 Canadians in Afganistan were killed in a firefight a year ago. 

I think the point of that squib was that Koreans' expressed saddness for victims- the families and the government both did. And the 911 hijacker's families supported the carnage and the Saudis and Egyptian governments or religious organizations( to the best of my recollection now) never offered condolences or condemnation of radical Islam. (That is depending on my memory which is not always accurate. ) And Lets I think if the muslim groups would disavow the aims of the terrorists - done in the name of Islam after all- loud and clear would go along way in helping the current situation.

Here in Northern Ireland not one sorry has been uttered by the IRA for their campaign of violence nor by the British for atrocities carried out by them. Yet we have peace and a workable formula for joint governance. Why? because those who considered the 'other side' terrorists or oppressors etc. realised that conflict didn't just arise out of nothing. genuine greivances were felt on all sides and absolutely had to be addressed. Disengagement from those you percieve as the enemy only feeds the cancer of division. Ask people to jump through political hoops to satisfy you and you will be sorely disappointed because the prevailing attitude will undoubtedly be ' why should we, they should be apologising to us!'

 Don't get me wrong, I am really heartened by the Korean apologetic attitude towards the terrible tradegy carried out by 'one of their own'. They are truly a civilised respectful people. I just don't think we should use that template to single out other groups to highlight weaknesses that we all share.

Lets, if a splinter group calling themselves Christian Avengers committed acts of terror ,murdering three thousand Eqyptians on commercial flights I know I would be apologizing, expressing condolences to those innocent Muslims murdered by a group of murderous idiots.  And I will wager Protestants and Catholics alike would openly and unequivicably condemn the act and speak out strongly against such a group using Christ as their centerpiece for savagery. The reaction would be widespread and strong.

I have wondered if average Muslims who are under serious threat of retribution-that is spelled MURDER- would condemn the terrorists. They who did that condemnation--- they might well be marked for assassination !

Do we have any common ground here ? 

The IRA and even that Old Paisley who seemed pretty f---ing recalcitrant could ,eventually talk. There is no talking with AL Queda. The IRA, Paisley greivances were for real and documented. Not some perceived general hate many centuries old.  There is no talking with Al Queda. They have a hatred of anything Western that does not follow Sharia law -worldwide- forget the history and rules of the 'enemy' western countries. Al Queda insists on a world wide Sharia Caliphite. Are you ready for that ?

I can see both pov.  In Australia we've had a HUGE debate over "sorry", and whether or not the govt should say it to aboriginals.

The PM refuses saying that his govt, and Australians living today - have done nothing to aboriginals, and therefore have nothing to personally apologise about.  He has regret about what happened in the past, but isn't sorry because he's done nothing wrong in regard to aboriginals.

IF he apologised to them, the next day the court case would start seeking some form of compensation from the govt.

Same with Iraq - do Americans need to apologise to Iraqis?  No.  Why?  Because Americans don't share a common view of their govt or the war.  Many are doing all they can to stop the coalition's actions in Iraq (rightly or wrongly).  There is no common, shared belief that the war is right and good amongst Americans.

Do muslims have to apologise to victims of muslim terrorists?  Well, that's a bit tougher to answer.  Muslims are bound by a shared doctrine of hate, intolerance and violence - the koran.  Being members of this group that propogates this belief system, there is some shared responsibility when a portion of their membership decides to FOLLOW what has specifically been taught to them by this belief system to the letter...and starts executing "infidels", "non-believers", "kafirs" and the like (ie you and me). 

Moderate muslims have an obligation to reign-in their extremist members, but at the end of the day, the only thing that makes them moderate is the fact they choose not to follow the teachings and life example of their murderous prophet muhammed.  Given they push muhammed's story and agenda, the blame can't be focused merely on those who enact his commandments, but also on those who teach his commandments to others.

In America, I don't think there's a need to say sorry to the victims of gun violence, unless you are one of those who advocates the proliferation of guns.  Because then - you are part of the problem that results in 30,000 dead Americans every year.  If you're one who has fought to reign-in the extremists in your own community, then as far as I'm concerned you should have no personal guilt when people are gunned down en-masse as at VA Tech.  Regret - yes. 

But no need to say sorry and apologise.  Leave that to the gun advocates to look in the mirror and consider.

 Double post.

Yeah, I think you have identified the difference Chris.

Yes it's an issue of semantics...and also culture.

Australia in recent years seems to have picked up from the American culture the idea of being sorry for anything and everything.  Here, it used to mean personal regret over one's own actions.  Now for some it's merely an expression of sympathy.

I agree with your sentiments Raymond - it's a pretty sucky existence for Iraqis living in Baghdad right now...other areas are far better.  They're bearing the brunt of Islamic extremism, which if it weren't for the conflict in Iraq might be directed much more closer to home.  In a way it's like airing a wound to heal it, but it's a messy place to be while the infection is slowly dealt with.