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101. Monday, August 24, 2009 10:02 AM
Booth RE: Obamacare


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVS4Zgjm8HE
*click*
Oops now I'm angry.

 
102. Monday, August 24, 2009 4:00 PM
newraymond RE: Obamacare


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Obama has shown himself to be incredibly off base in his push for healthcare. The evil doctors ripping out kid's tonsils and a month later cutting of patients' feet instead of offering less remunerative diabetes practices. Pathetic. He doesn't learn.

Then Obama makes the template for government healthcare the post office!

His ridiculous premise that we can add a supposed 40 million to government care to save money. Riight.

The Democrat crew making old people out to be "Brown shirts", "swastica wearing", "domestic terrorists like Timothy McVie". ( This whole Nazi stuff originates from Dem senators and representatives! ) This brilliance may permanently shift significant blocks of oldies into republican backers going forward.

Obama ,the freshman senator with zero experience aside from community organizing, is not presidential. Someone should tell him "It's the economy stupid." 

 
103. Monday, August 24, 2009 5:03 PM
nuart RE: Obamacare


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I'm really starting to have negative feelings about the human race.

 

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

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104. Monday, September 14, 2009 2:39 PM
nuart RE: Obamacare


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This somewhat lengthy but detailed article expresses some of the problems with the speech before Congress last week.  Something to think about.  And this is just the tip of the ice berg.

Susan

The Wall Street Journal

Fact-Checking the President on Health Insurance

His tales of abuse don't stand scrutiny.

In his speech to Congress last week, President Barack Obama attempted to sell a reform agenda by demonizing the private health-insurance industry, which many people love to hate. He opened the attack by asserting: "More and more Americans pay their premiums, only to discover that their insurance company has dropped their coverage when they get sick, or won't pay the full cost of care. It happens every day."

Clearly, this should never happen to anyone who is in good standing with his insurance company and has abided by the terms of the policy. But the president's examples of people "dropped" by their insurance companies involve the rescission of policies based on misrepresentation or concealment of information in applications for coverage. Private health insurance cannot function if people buy insurance only after they become seriously ill, or if they knowingly conceal health conditions that might affect their policy.Traditional practice, governed by decades of common law, statute and regulation is for insurers to rely in underwriting and pricing on the truthfulness of the information provided by applicants about their health, without conducting a costly investigation of each applicant's health history. Instead, companies engage in a certain degree of ex post auditing—conducting more detailed and costly reviews of a subset of applications following policy issue—including when expensive treatment is sought soon after a policy is issued.

This practice offers substantial cost savings and lower premiums compared to trying to verify every application before issuing a policy, or simply paying all claims, regardless of the accuracy and completeness of the applicant's disclosure. Some states restrict insurer rescission rights to instances where the misrepresented or concealed information is directly related to the illness that produced the claim. Most states do not.

To highlight abusive practices, Mr. Obama referred to an Illinois man who "lost his coverage in the middle of chemotherapy because his insurer found he hadn't reported gallstones that he didn't even know about." The president continued: "They delayed his treatment, and he died because of it."

Although the president has used this example previously, his conclusion is contradicted by the transcript of a June 16 hearing on industry practices before the Subcommittee of Oversight and Investigation of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce. The deceased's sister testified that the insurer reinstated her brother's coverage following intervention by the Illinois Attorney General's Office. She testified that her brother received a prescribed stem-cell transplant within the desired three- to four-week "window of opportunity" from "one of the most renowned doctors in the whole world on the specific routine," that the procedure "was extremely successful," and that "it extended his life nearly three and a half years."

The president's second example was a Texas woman "about to get a double mastectomy when her insurance company canceled her policy because she forgot to declare a case of acne." He said that "By the time she had her insurance reinstated, her breast cancer more than doubled in size."

The woman's testimony at the June 16 hearing confirms that her surgery was delayed several months. It also suggests that the dermatologist's chart may have described her skin condition as precancerous, that the insurer also took issue with an apparent failure to disclose an earlier problem with an irregular heartbeat, and that she knowingly underreported her weight on the application.

These two cases are presumably among the most egregious identified by Congressional staffers' analysis of 116,000 pages of documents from three large health insurers, which identified a total of about 20,000 rescissions from millions of policies issued by the insurers over a five-year period. Company representatives testified that less than one half of one percent of policies were rescinded (less than 0.1% for one of the companies).

If existing laws and litigation governing rescission are inadequate, there clearly are a variety of ways that the states or federal government could target abuses without adopting the president's agenda for federal control of health insurance, or the creation of a government health insurer.

Later in his speech, the president used Alabama to buttress his call for a government insurer to enhance competition in health insurance. He asserted that 90% of the Alabama health-insurance market is controlled by one insurer, and that high market concentration "makes it easier for insurance companies to treat their customers badly—by cherry-picking the healthiest individuals and trying to drop the sickest; by overcharging small businesses who have no leverage; and by jacking up rates."

In fact, the Birmingham News reported immediately following the speech that the state's largest health insurer, the nonprofit Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama, has about a 75% market share. A representative of the company indicated that its "profit" averaged only 0.6% of premiums the past decade, and that its administrative expense ratio is 7% of premiums, the fourth lowest among 39 Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans nationwide.

Similarly, a Dec. 31, 2007, report by the Alabama Department of Insurance indicates that the insurer's ratio of medical-claim costs to premiums for the year was 92%, with an administrative expense ratio (including claims settlement expenses) of 7.5%. Its net income, including investment income, was equivalent to 2% of premiums in that year.

In addition to these consumer friendly numbers, a survey in Consumer Reports this month reported that Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama ranked second nationally in customer satisfaction among 41 preferred provider organization health plans. The insurer's apparent efficiency may explain its dominance, as opposed to a lack of competition—especially since there are no obvious barriers to entry or expansion in Alabama faced by large national health insurers such as United Healthcare and Aetna.

Responsible reform requires careful analysis of the underlying causes of problems in health insurance and informed debate over the benefits and costs of targeted remedies. The president's continued demonization of private health insurance in pursuit of his broad agenda of government expansion is inconsistent with that objective.

Mr. Harrington is professor of health-care management and insurance and risk management at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School and an adjunct scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

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105. Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:15 AM
R_Flagg RE: Obamacare


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Physician Views on the Public Health Insurance Option and Medicare Expansions

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation survey shows physicians support reform plan that includes both public and private options.

 

A RWJF survey summarized in the September 14, 2009 edition of the New England Journal of Medicine shows that 62.9 percent of physicians nationwide support proposals to expand health care coverage that include both public and private insurance options—where people under the age of 65 would have the choice of enrolling in a new public health insurance plan (like Medicare) or in private plans. The survey shows that just 27.3 percent of physicians support a new program that does not include a public option and instead provides subsidies for low-income people to purchase private insurance. Only 9.6 percent of doctors nationwide support a system where a Medicare-like public program is created in lieu of any private insurance. A majority of physicians (58%) also support expanding Medicare eligibility to those between the ages of 55 and 64.

In every region of the country, a majority of physicians supported a combination of public and private options, as did physicians who identified themselves as primary care providers, surgeons, or other medical subspecialists. Among those who identified themselves as members of the American Medical Association, 62.2 percent favored both the public and private options.

The survey was conducted between June 25 and September 3, 2009 by Salomeh Keyhani, M.D., M.P.H., and Alex Federman, M.D., M.P.H., of the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York City. While the survey was conducted in several “waves” over a tumultuous summer for the health reform debate, no statistically significant differences were identified in physician responses throughout the summer.

http://www.rwjf.org/healthreform/quality/product.jsp?id=48408

R_Flagg

 
106. Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:55 AM
jordan RE: Obamacare

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that survey missed an important question though - do you support the current plan being debated in Washington. The survey gave the doctors 3 choices - it's no surprise the results are what they are. Most people are going to say there should be both options. The problem is HOW to implement both options that protect everyone and their choices.

One small note I found interesting. Table 3 of the PDF file. It shows that physicians like private insurance on how it performs over Medicare by 46% to 21%. 62% of doctors say that private health insurance pays them more adequately than Medicare.


Jordan .

 
107. Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:43 PM
R_Flagg RE: Obamacare


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The problem is that most critics of the current plan are unwilling to accept any reform with a public option. I don't see anything in the current plan that won't allow people to keep their current private coverage.

 R_Flagg

 
108. Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:52 PM
jordan RE: Obamacare

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At the moment, but the problem is that the current plan is written in such a way where companies can drop insurance as a benefit to save their own costs knowing there's a public option (that's a bad summary and paraphrase). But ultimately we could see a lot of private companies dropping insurance as a benefit -- thus sooner or later, we're all on the public option (except for the rich -- talk about rich get richer, and poor get poorer).

I'm perfectly fine with a public option as long as it's the SAME THING as our politicians get. Anything less we should not accept. And I've said that same thing multiple times in this thread.


Jordan .

 
109. Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:57 PM
nuart RE: Obamacare


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I don't see anything in the current plan that won't allow people to keep their current private coverage.

 

 R_Flagg, that is the discussion we've had here (and around the USA) for months on end.  The idea that "you can keep your current private coverage" is negated when you consider that 85% of the insured are insured through their work  place. If their employers have to pay much much more to maintain that current plan over the so-called public option, said employer will likely dump their employees into the less expensive plans.  At that point the employee will not have that previously current private plan available unless they go outside their company supplied health care benefit package.

Another consideration - when the government is running public option health care, who is going to administer it?  Those individual corporations who have remained very quiet - the insurance companies. 

Susan

 

PS  Jordan and I were responding simultaneously!


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
110. Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:16 PM
R_Flagg RE: Obamacare


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From what I understand, if an employer drops their coverage, they will have to pay into insurance exchanges. There the employees can shop around for insurance plans.

Also, I see health insurance benefits slowly disappearing without a public option anyway. This is due to the rising costs, especially for small businesses. With a public option it may force insurance companies to provide lower costs, better care, and services to compete with the public option.

R_Flagg

 
111. Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:57 PM
jordan RE: Obamacare

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You're right - public plan may very well force insurance plans to go lower. But it's going to be hard to compete against a subsidized entity like the US govt. (Remember Obama's remark about USPS?)

You basically just admitted that by increasing competition, we can lower insurance costs! DAMN RIGHT! Remember that Ann Coulter article a couple of pages back that most of us rolled our eyes over? Amongst all her rhetoric, she made some comments about competition that was probably overlooked. State and federal laws have limited competition amongst insurance companies, thus decreasing competition, and increasing prices. Increase competition, improve service, and improve prices.

Regarding employer dropping coverage - I've heard several different things. One of the things is what you mention. But the majority of items I've read (and even reading some portions of the bill) it seems to indicate that this may not be the case. I think the item you mention was floated around in one bill, but may not be in the final version being thrown around. Again, I could be wrong - i know at one point there were four or five bills being thrown around in Washington.

In either case, it's hard to compete against a subsidized US govt entity. I think overtime, you'll begin to see employees (esp small ones) dropping health care simply because "govt can now do it." All companies in the end will also probably only provide health coverage to their top execs.


Jordan .

 
112. Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:39 PM
R_Flagg RE: Obamacare


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I think a major problem is the so called competition we have now does not help the consumer all that much. The health insurance companies join together to lobby and contribute millions of dollars to both republicans and democrats in congress to pass laws and regulations that benefit their own interests to keep costs and profits high. They are using their influence to defeat a public option because they know that it will give consumers extra leverage and choices they don't have under the current system. A public option will force insurance companies to actually change the way they do business and force them to truly compete for the consumer's dollar by providing better services, something they don't need to worry about all that much under the current system.

Last time I fact checked the exchange penalty for companies dropping coverage was in the bill. That was after the Obama speech so if something changed I'm not aware of it.  I know its unthinkable for some, but beyond the rhetoric most democrats in congress are actually capitalists who receive large contributions from insurance companies. Give them an inkling of credit here. They are aware of the situation regarding companies dropping insurance and it is in their best interests to ensure the health insurance companies survive and flourish while maintaining their pledge to provide health care to all. How to do this is tricky and is probably the reason for so many bills, changes, and misinformation. It's a difficult situation for this congress both technically and politically.

If things stay the same which I think they will (I'm on record for thinking this bill gets killed in the senate due to the lobby interest) small businesses will not be able to pay for the rising cost of insurance. These small businesses will not be able to provide insurance and recruit the most talented employees. Worse case they may not be able to stay in business. I feel that small businesses are the foundation for a good economy and with things already unstable it may get much worse. Hopefully this won't be the case.

R_Flagg

 
113. Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:45 AM
jordan RE: Obamacare

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The fine for dropping insurance is in the bill. But isn't a one-time, and in most cases is less than the cost of insurance that some companies might be willing to swallow.

"They are using their influence to defeat a public option because they know that it will give consumers extra leverage and choices they don't have under the current system. A public option will force insurance companies to actually change the way they do business and force them to truly compete for the consumer's dollar by providing better services, something they don't need to worry about all that much under the current system."

So correct me if I'm wrong (I hate putting words in people's mouths), you're saying that a public option is the only way to to give consumers extra leverage and choice, and the only way to to change the current system? Maybe only way is not the right words, maybe "best way" would be better here?

Am I summarizing properly?


Jordan .

 
114. Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:57 AM
newraymond RE: Obamacare


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45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found.

The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby — the powerful American Medical Association — both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul.

It also calls into question whether an overhaul is even doable; 72% of the doctors polled disagree with the administration's claim that the government can cover 47 million more people with better-quality care at lower cost. ...

 
115. Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:14 AM
jordan RE: Obamacare

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direct link

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199


Jordan .

 
116. Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:00 PM
nuart RE: Obamacare


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QUOTE:direct link http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199


 http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199

To me this pretty much says it all.  Babies and bathwater.  Noses to spite faces.  Battles and losing wars.

 

 "Tomorrow: Why most doctors oppose the government's plan — in their own words."

 

Please remind me to check this tomorrow, Jordan, if I forget.

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
117. Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:08 PM
R_Flagg RE: Obamacare


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So correct me if I'm wrong (I hate putting words in people's mouths), you're saying that a public option is the only way to to give consumers extra leverage and choice, and the only way to to change the current system? Maybe only way is not the right words, maybe "best way" would be better here? Am I summarizing properly?


Yes, I meant to say that a public option would be the best way to force competition that will actually work to change both the way insurance companies do business and benefits provided to consumers imo. It's a copmlex issue that congress has to deal with. They owe their supporters health care for everyone as promised but at the same time want to protect private insurance companies and lobbyists that have backed them in the past. 

Unfortunately this debate in public gets reduced to simple arguments that insurance companies are evil vs complete socialist government takeover when neither are what this reform is really about imo.  Companies who drop health care will still need to pay into the Exchange so employees can chose their own plans.

R_Flagg

 
118. Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:15 PM
jordan RE: Obamacare

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Ah, there's the difference between you and I. I do not believe getting govt into the insurance game is going to improve competition. I think we should look at the private sector, remove the provisions that don't allow competition, improve insurance regulation and move to digital medical records before we even consider a public option as an alternative. We've never tried to do anything else (like removing federal and state restrictions to improve competition).

I think immediately running to a public option is going to get us in trouble in 50 years or so. Sounds great now but my kids are going to be badly affected by it I believe - if not done right.


Jordan .

 
119. Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:03 PM
R_Flagg RE: Obamacare


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At our last town hall meeting in Santa Fe a small primary care physician in Los Alamos conducted a study of his peers in the state of New Mexcio. A majority stated they plan to retire or leave their practices early if no health care reform is passed due to rising administrative costs for small practices. I would like to see a nation wide poll on this. I'm afraid with the status quo small pratices will not be able to continue. Again, I think small businesses make up the foundation for a healthy economy.

I found interesting some specific NM statistics pointed out by senator Jeff Bingaman on the state of health care. Only 42.3% of New Mexicans receive employer sponsored health care. This is almost 11% lower than the national average. 26% of state residents are uninsured. Only 34% of firms with fewer than 50 employees offer coverage.

Lets change gears a bit and look a things from a perspective not mentioned very often. I feel prevention is a major issue that needs addressed. A large majority of Americans consume huge amouts of fatty junk food every day and are considered obese by most medical professionals. God forbid we regulate the crap food industry that contributes to rising health care woes. I think I should get a break on my insurance for living a healthly lifestyle. Another problem here is that a very large percentage of the ER patients in Santa Fe are residual visitors with alcohol and drug problems. Most have no insurance and they are clogging up the works for true emergency patients. I wonder if it would be better to treat these people in community clinics or in treatment programs rather than waste ER expertise and equipment to the tune of $1500 - $3000 per each repeated visit? Many of these local folks are on a first name basis with the staff in the ER because they spend so much time there. This seems ludicrous, wasteful and compromising for someone who goes to the ER with a serious emergency. According to Bingaman’s research, the current system costs the average person more than $1,000 per year. This will go up over time if the status quo remains intact. I'm not sure this can be changed without government regulation of some kind.

R_Flagg

 
120. Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:36 PM
jordan RE: Obamacare

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When govt started taxing cigarettes in the name of "health" and "our kids" i knew we were in trouble, and that was the first test step in govt deciding to tax our vices in the name of "health." I hate smoking and wish people wouldn't, but I hate the fact that we taxed cigarettes more. I knew that fast food, junk food and sodas would be on the list. I see alcohol soon being taxed at a higher rate in the near future too. (Anyone seeing a new form of prohibition coming to reality?)

I actually imagined the other day that since it's the IRS who will be partly managing health care, every year, all of us on the public option will have to go to the doctor to have him fill out some 10XX form to register our official weight and official health status. Those who are overweight, etc would be taxed higher or fined if we are over a certain income, whereas those that are under a certain income wouldn't be taxed higher or fined. Granted, probabl would never happen....

But it got me thinking, how far govt would go in the name of "prevention medicine" and "for the common good." Will it become my "patriotic duty" to stay fit and not be obese for the "common good" of society. And how would you/could you enforce such a thing?

Regarding people who misuse ER. I don't know how you fix something like that. You can't turn people away, but sooner or later, I think you have to start turning people away if they are "regular customers" who are looking for a warm bed, some drugs, whatever. I know that's a major issue in hospitals also - I just have no idea how to fix something like that. How would you force people to go to a "community clinic" instead? If you're on the public option, then the govt can tell you what to do now for the sake of your health and "the common good" of the rest of society?


Jordan .

 
121. Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:31 PM
Booth RE: Obamacare


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Here are some people protesting

 
122. Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:43 PM
jordan RE: Obamacare

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I remember many of the people on the anti-Bush/anti-war/anti-whatever the last 8 years were just as ridiculous.

But if memory serves me right, the general consensus was that Bush and the GOP "need to listen" to the "American people" in these protests. Of course, the response was simply to shrug these protesters off and ignore. The big thing then was to refer to these protesters as unpatriotic and being controlled by left-wing groups. The general consensus was to consider these people the minority and aren't really the rest of America, and should be ignored and push forward on what is best for America.

Flash forward to today....the party in power now calls these protesters violent, racist, bigots, etc being controlled by right wing media, and should be ignored, and shrugged off. Same people who were perfectly fine with protesters and called speaking out patriotic are now suggesting otherwise. That these people aren't really the rest of America and are just a minority, and should be ignored and push forward on what is best for America.

Oh, the joys of politics and partisanship! :-)


Jordan .

 
123. Friday, September 25, 2009 3:43 PM
jordan RE: Obamacare

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Posted at Politico today:

 if you don't buy insurance, and don't pay the fine, it's a misdemeanor and you might find yourself in jail for up to one year.

the link above has a scan of a PDF of a handwritten note with this info on it.


Jordan .

 
124. Saturday, September 26, 2009 2:20 PM
newraymond RE: Obamacare


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That is one distinct aspect of having the Fed Gubamint large and in charge. The Big Insurance guys don't have the power to confiscate (loot) your bank accounts using the IRS muscle. Also, if an insurance coverage case seems to be unfair and your ox is being gored you can not prevail over the Gubamint. To all intent and purpose you can't sue the Almighty Govt. Oh yeah, and the Big G can throw you in jail for daring to take a measure of your own fate in your own hands.

I heard that there is an equal number of health practicioners ( doctors, nurses, ems people) and non medical bureaucrats in England's NH. Can that be true?

The above aside, make sure you report every dime you made on that Garage Sale my green friends. : )

 

 
125. Sunday, October 11, 2009 9:14 AM
nuart RE: Obamacare


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This article was on the front page of today's NYTimes.  It's long.  Four pages on the internet.  I hope some of you find it worth your time to read and consider in terms of the health care debate. 

It's about the costs and risks of In Vitro Fertilization.  Not just the costs to the family involved in this method of child bearing but the costs to co-workers whose insurance rates go through the roof as a result of these "million-dollar babies."  How much do we each want to contribute to what begins as an elective procedure?  Once the child/children are born, the costs can sky rocket beyond what a single birth would cost. 

It also caused me to think about the stats you hear from time to time about the US infant mortality rate that some employ to illustrate how poorly we fare in comparison to other countries.  

The many many twins born these days is explored.  I have had my own experiences observing twins (and sometimes triplets) in NICU who can spend weeks there waiting to be over 4 pounds and "big" enough to go home.

Any thoughts on the subject?

Susan

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 

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