has anyone seen this documentary called Loose Change 2nd edition???

 i was with the majority of people who went along with the facts on wat happened on 9/11,i stumbled across this documentary while reading about Oliver Stones new movie WTC.

there was a link on imdb to the google video site where the link for the video was,its 1 hour 20mins long makes compelling veiwing,i was left shocked by the evidence put forward by the documentary makers,and how the bush admin has contradicted its self so many times its unreal.also the goverment released facts and investigation turns out to be highly fawled and unblieveable.

 i would advise you to watch b4 replying to this post,and watch with an open mind.

Here's a link to the google video.  I am going to watch it in a bit.

Google Video

Within a very short time, there will be a need for a massive compound of warehouses just to contain the many 9/11 conspiracy theories yet to be invented. The isolated quotes that open this "documentary" are all but useless as are most mini-segments of the whole. Pretty damned amusing especially when accompanied by the serious score and the dead serious narrator daring to tell the Whole Truth and Nothing But the Truth, regardless of his personal risk. Wow. Such courage.

Myself, I always like this Richard Clarke quote a little better than the "Waaaaaaah, I have failed you and your government has failed you" one...

Yeah, that was Richard Clarke pontificating on Osama's fear of the US. Date: July 2001. Source: Atlantic Monthly magazine. Since it's from a magazine article we can assume he probably made that comment at least a month prior to the publication of the magazine, which would have been on the stands in June 2001. In other words in the early months of the Bush administration. Lotta foresight from this guy.

Anyone can put together a documentary (so called) that sets out to prove their predetermined opinion. Nonsense. Pure unadultrated bunkum as much of this genre of filmmaking has become. It's too tiresome to deconstruct the lies, distortions and inaccuracies from beginning to end with something like this. Fact is, if one is predisposed to want to buy into conspiracy theories, one will. But it is a serious peril to a nation's collective critical thinking. Sigh...

For a brief point-counter-point, try reading the 58 pages of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's description of the planning of 9/11. Ah, but what would he know when the real culprits go back to Robert McNamara and forward to Rumsfeld, Bush, Condoleezza Rice and Cheney???

http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/pdf/DX-0941.pdf

Sigh...

Mrs. Gingrich used to tell our 8th grade classroom, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

She was right.

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

well are all the ,firemen,policemen who saw and heard wrong???

are the experts who have commented on the so called "truth" wrong,are the bbc liars for saying they interviewed the hjackers weeks after 9/11???

 how does someones passport made from the most flimsy and delicate matrial come out unscathed,and the blackboxes don't made of supposed insdestructable material,the jet fuel that apparently melted the steel could burn somones passport but the blackboxes just disappear.

why doesnt the goverment release the tape show the plane hiting the pentagon from the 3 other cameras that had  clear view of the full thing.i agree with the documentary that it doesnt seem that a plane hit the pentagon wheres the wings because there was no damage done to the building from the wings there werent any on the lawn either all there was was a circle shaped hole in the empty wing that was hit.

I just watched it and it was an eye opener. There will always be conspiracy theories but I think when you have too many credible resources saying the oppisite of what has been sold as truth, you have to think twice. It opened my eyes and I wish that others would at least give it a chance, step outside your bubble. At least, if you don't agree with it, you can say why.

In visitng the website for the documentary this is what is says about the evidnece:

i agree smeds i doubt nuart actual watched it and watched like the first 5minutes,i don't believe the jfk conspiracy,roswell,elvis,marlyn but i think there are so many experts saying that these facts given out by the goverment are false and misleading.these people are not the town crazys but MIT professor,mining experts,steel experts.damn even i know the steel wouldnt have melted in that heat and i work in a foundry.

like i said i wish could drop their guard,this isnt going to attack them but open their eyes.

Sigh...

Didn't hear what you thought about Khalid Shaikh Mohammed's testimony... 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

You're right, (for a change) mark, I didn't watch the whole godawful thing. But there was nothing I hadn't heard before within the first 10 minutes so why bother??? Maybe if I had watched the whole TRUTH, I'd have learned about those Jews who were warned not to show up for work that September morning. Or those Israelis who were jumping around and dancing with joy in Brooklyn as they watched the towers go down in dust. Maybe I'd have learned Giuliani's connectiion to the anthrax malings. Of the so-called jet that flew into the Pentagon (hmmmmmmm) that really was a missile. The remote controlled jets with Bush and Cheney pulling the strings. The fact that all the so-called (hmmmmmmm) hijackers are STILL ALIVE!!! The fact that the towers could not have possibly fallen as they did without the use of internal explosives.

You see, mark, I have probably read more than you can easily imagine on the 9/11 conspiracies. My book shelves are lined with the earliest versions of the nonsense. I can go toe to toe with the filmmakers if we were eye to eye. None of the current conspiracies are outside my purview. Plus, as you can see, I too own a computer with internet access.

I rail against this flawed logic, partial investigation based on cut and paste of Thierry Meissen's silly book that got the ball rolling, and the lazy intellect that wants to accept it all at face value because goshdarnit, it's DOCUMENTED! I rail at every opportunity I get only because I dread being a part of a developing culture of conspiracy and paranoia. We've seen how well that worked in Saudi Arabia. I'm afraid I may go down with the ship anyway should the forces of illogic and half truths prevail, but it will not be without a fight against the power of collective insanity.

And yes, sigh I will.

The funniest part of the whole kit and kaboodle to me is how frustrated it must be to the actual surviving terrorists like Ramsi Binalshib, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Zacarias Moussaoui, who see the credit for their actions being usurped by the powers that be within the Great Satan. Too hilarious! What do we Al Qaeda types need to do to be taken seriously?!

Pitiful.  Make sure you let me know how you reconcile the Khalid Shaihk Mohammed testimony too, okay, Mark.

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

the thing that really bothers me about this forum is it turns into a mud slinging match and its usualy me vs every republican voter on this board.and i usually get shouted down and get my spelling mistakes corrected.also it tends to get really childish.

the thing is you'll never know wat its about by judging a book by its cover my teacher told me that one too you know lol,so why not leave you single mindeness at the door for all of 1 hour 20 minutes then draw your own conclusions to it which will probaly be the exact same anway.

you say you can go toe to toe with the film makers,that maybe true,but what about the MIT professors,mechinal engineers,structial engineers,fire engineers???are you going to say your smarter that them and that theyre all dumb and don't know wat theyre talking about.all these experts in the fields are wrong and you know more about than them???

i can read every post and topic on this gazzette with an open mind and then decide but then there are people who just judge and are ingorant,and like to agrue and by rude by not respecting other peoples opinions.

Come on, doesn't it strike you as at least "interesting" that top officials cancelled their flight plans on Sept. 11 or that the mayor of San Franscisco received a call not to fly?

Also, all the information compiled in this documentary is all available to the public.  All taken from various news sources and from interviews with various people.  There may be some of it that I find far fetched, but that's an assessment I made after looking at it.  

What is it seriously going to hurt if you watch this documentary?  And if you're not going to watch it, them maybe you should refrain from saying things about it.  There are things posted here that make me extremely angry, but I may not know much information about the issue, so I don't post about it.   

I long ago stopped with the spelling comments, Mark. The subject of 9/11 has nothing to do with Republicanism either. Trust me, I've been probably as far left as left goes without tilting the scale, but even then I would never have bought into the nonsense offered in the submitted video. I will try to be nice here but I do so weary of suggestions that we, the blind, should open our eyes. There is no way for me to convince you that I have already considered all the far-fetched and loose connecting of dots done by the conspiracy theorists over 9/11. You are likely to continue to think I'm a close-minded, evil Republican, who's unwilling to see the TRUTH. That is not the case whether you believe it or not.

Give me names and statements of your MIT professors of metallurgy or whatever and I'll find you a counterview. Not nameless academics. I know one of the professors you probably refer to has been widely criticized within his own field. These counterviews are not difficult to locate should you wish to. But if you only want to find the understandably enjoyable novelistic and cinematic pretend stories of what coulda happened, you shall find that too. There are countless cutters and pasters on the internet doing just that. By the way, guess whose brother in a professor of metallurgy? (hint=mine)

There are reasons I have already delved DEEPLY into the conspiracies, Mark.  I'll PM you if you're interested. 

Please consider for yourself if you are not engaging in a whole lotta wishful thinking to try to pin 9/11 on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld or all the evil Jews of the Neo-Con PNACers. I know the conspiracists' usual suspects.

Once again, you've forgotten to tell me what you thought about the Khalid Shaihk Mohammed testimony. See, that Islamo-fascist detail is a rather large missing link in all the conspiracy thinking. Pesky Al Qaeda terrorists, whom, for as far as I'm concerned REALLY do exist and really did fly four jets into 2 WTC, 1 Pentagon and 1 empty field in Pennsylvania.

Look for this when reading the conspiracy sites/books too -- a random quote out of context, a random bit of information, an attribution to a professor, and then the SUGGESTION. The hmmmmm affect. These types will generally follow up by saying, "I can't tell you exactly what happened. But I CAN tell you the Official Story doesn't hold water," and yada yada. They won't come out and do a straight forward presentation of the A,B,Cs of what they believe happened because a fake story always has too many loose ends. Plus, why bother? All they wish to do is instill doubt in the government (evil) version. Michael Moore 101.

Tupac is dead, Courtney Love didn't kill Kurt, Marilyn Monroe committed suicide, the US landed on the moon in 1969, and 9/11 was an Al Qaeda plot which succeeded quite beyond their wildest expectations. The JFK assassination, on the other hand, was probably a conspiracy.

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE KHALID SHAIKH MOHAMMED TESTIMONY. Sincerely, I am interested.

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Ah, Smeds, please don't get angry. I'll temper my rhetoric, okay. While what I've written may make you angry, I am not so much insulting you or Mark with what I write. My outrage is directed at the people who perpetrate what I will continue to state is nonsense. I'm not going to do all the work by taking each and every incident that is presented on the docu and finding the contextual facts surrounding it. There is a certain time factor and I've already done it myself. Granted, I have more time than many of you who have jobs and school to deal with. If you give me your more salient points, I'll answer them. A few. The biggies. But even I have some other things to do besides posting on the Gazette. I'll give it a shot, if you like, however.

I'm sorry for my tone if it was too snotty. But I'm dead serious that I believe there is no a graver threat than buying into half-assed conspiracies, seeking them out, attempting to make the picture fit a predetermined template of government conspiracy, making documentaries about them, starting websites with ever more preposterous nonsense. On September 11, 2001 19 Arab hijackers commandeered four American jets and took with them nearly 3000 innocent lives. THAT's pretty damned amazing! The actual facts surrounding how that was accomplished is also pretty damned interesting without the fantastic filmic version. I won't go down that rabbit hole except for the lark of a fictionalized account.

Trust me when I tell you there will be no dearth of explanations and little niggling details that will come up for the next century or so about what "really happened." But the basic Occam's Razor of the day remains the same. It was a terrorist attack of grand proportions.

And then, if you've read Khalid Shaihk Mohammed's testimony, help me see how you reconcile that with videos about PNACers.

If you have more time on your hands, let me know what you think about the entire (pretty dull, actually, and non-incendiary in its full context) PNAC Report. 

And now, it is Saturday.  Saturday means I go to Costco and PetsMart.  When I get back if you have a point or two that you'd like me to address from my angle, I'll take it on. 

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

I don't have time to read the transcript so I am not going comment on it.  As for the rest, hmmm....why did we fly the bin Ladens out of the US right after 9/11?  Why did Condi call the mayor of San Fran and tell him not to fly?  Why were there no skids on the lawn where the crash occured at the Pentagon?  Why couldn't we recover the black boxes from all the planes and then why couldn't we hear evreything on the black boxes?

Sounds a little fishy to me. 

and why did wtc 7 go down is a coincidence that it held thousands of of IRS files and Federal Investigation files and why when you see the footage of 7 going down do the imploions go upwards not downwards.and why did nbc refuse to show footage of the collapse of 7.

 i'll get the experts names,one would be professor steven jones another would be mike taylor an expert in controled demolitions,MIT enigineer jeff king, i'll get the others.

what about the firemen and the policemen who heard lots of explosions b4 the buildings collpased.and what where these explosionsbecause they was nothing in those offices except funiture,computers,etc.the plane fuel burnt off immdeiatley on impact with the building.jet fuel needs to be kept burning how can that happen when nearly of it exploded outside the building.the WTC complex are the only buildings in history to come down because of fire.you only have to look at the madrid building which burned for 24 hours and never collapsed.

why was the buildings insured for acts of terrorism 2 months bfore hand by larry sliverstein and from what i've read mr sliverstein trying to claim each tower was a separate act of terroism.why also did the pentagon staff practice for a plane flying into the building for it to be deemed unrealistic and for a pilot who was involved in that very project to be one of the pilots aboard one of the hjacked planes.

also why was the steel shipped over seas bfore fema could exam it to see if it was a fire that brought it towers down.there was never anyfire ball shooting down the lift shafts because their air tight to prevent and fires in the building.so wats with the molten metal found in the rusten in the basement of WTC 1-2-7??

also why do you resort to rascist insults by shouting jews and refering to people as neo nazis,no-one called the bush admin any of those names so why resort to this behaviour.why bother posting here when its just scarcasm and bad attiude.

also did i not say i didnt believe in conspiracys,so why do drag all this up.if you dont agree you dont have to post.

it's real simple - it's easier to blame a "corrupt" governemtn than to believe that people would actually fly planes into buildings.It's easier to believe a govt conspiracy than anything else sometimes. And frankly if someone wants to believe in a govt conspiracy, go right ahead. Find more reasons to hate Bush, hate the administration, and whatever else you want to think.

Everytime I see/hear somoen infer that anyone who believes the "story" and doesn't listen to the "other side" (ie consipriacies) either have their head in the sand, or are blinded. How much more snotty can you get than that? But I guess only Republicans who shout down others can get snotty. Whatever. I guess being snotty is all in the eye of the beholder. Did this paragraph just come across snotty?

Frankly, everyone, this is almost laughable. Oh but this person said this, so this must be the "truth" because we can't believe the government. Why were the Bin Ladens flown out? For goodness sakes - is that even a debate anymore? It's pretty simple. Like almost all government individiauls, they leave a country when things get sorta hot. And let's also remember, unlike what Michael Moore told you, the Bin Ladens didn't even leave the US until AFTER airspace was opened up. Yes they were flown internally in the US, but I bet we could find others who were flown internally in the US too that have no ties to terrorism who were high ranking govt officials.

This reminds me of the Katrina thing too - "oh, there were explosions so Bush must've set some bombs to blow up a levee!" C'mon people!!!! Think for a moment - there are implosions inside a building because there are gas leaks all over hte frickin place. I remember specifically that was one of the biggest concerns during those days - gas leaks! There's fire. There's all sorts of things going on after something like this that could make anything implode or explode or whatever you want to think. Just because something implodes doesn't mean someone blew it up on purpose. A few weeks back there was a house in our area that imploded because it had a meth lab in it!!!  

Okay, black boxes - you can't always recover black boxes in airplane crashes like this. We were lucky in my opinion to get what we did get. And black boxes don't always get every little sound made in the cockpit. Listen to many black boxes, and you'll hear that not everything is always understood, and when some black boxes are damanged some of the vocals can be bad too.  

The worst type of evidence is what people say and remember. Our memories are not exact. We remember things the way we want to remember, and frankly, that day, many of the firefighters were running around trying to save people, and there was lots of sournds and things happening. People's memory are not the best "evidence" and saying that "well, if they heard it this way then it must be true" is flawed from the beginning.  

"also did i not say i didnt believe in conspiracys,so why do drag all this up.if you dont agree you dont have to post."

So now someone has to agree to post? Whatever.  

Jordan .

 20 reasons to question the "TRUTH"

(1) The 9-11 Commission refused to examine the vast majority of evidence about 9/11, and even the former director of the FBI says there was a cover up by the 9/11 Commission

www.newsmax.com
and 
www.amazon.com books
 

(2) USA Today stated that the FBI believed that bombs in the buildings brought the buildings down

terrorize.dk truck bombs.fbi.jack.kelley.rm
 

(3) MSNBC stated that police officials believe "that one of the explosions at the world trade center . . . may have been caused by a van that was parked in the building that may have had some kind of explosive device in it, so their fear is that there may have been explosive devices planted either in the building or in the adjacent area"

terrorize.dk  police found explosives.wmv
 

(4) The NY Fire Department Chief of Safety stated there were "bombs" and "secondary devices", which caused the explosions in the buildings

terrorize.dk 911.wtc.reporter.1.wmv
 

(5) NYC firefighters who witnessed attacks stated that it looked like there were bombs in the buildings. A NYC firefighter stated "On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there was bombs set in the building"

web.archive.org  people special
 

(6) The head of a national demolition association stated that the collapse of the towers looked like a "classic controlled demolition"

www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1281
 

(7) Eyewitnesses have testified that substantial explosions occurred well BELOW the area impacted by the planes, and -- according to some witnesses -- they occurred BEFORE the plane had even hit

georgewashington.blogspot.com below-belt
 

(8) A police officer testified that there were numerous, HUGE explosions at the top of one of the twin towers 15 minutes apart, before the tower collapsed

www.thememoryhole.org  pa-police-reports04.pdf
 

(9) Numerous, credible ex-government officials are warning that the U.S. government might very well attack its own people to justify a further clampdown on civil rights and to justify additional wars

georgewashington.blogspot  officials warn
 

(10) The tape of interviews of air traffic controllers on-duty on 9/11 was intentionally destroyed by crushing the cassette by hand, cutting the tape into little pieces, and then dropping the pieces in different trash cans around the building

nytimes.com archive
and 
web.archive.org suntimes.com
 

(11) Investigators for the Congressional Joint Inquiry discovered that an FBI informant had hosted and rented a room to two hijackers in 2000 and that, when the Inquiry sought to interview the informant, the FBI refused outright, and then hid him in an unknown location, and that a high-level FBI official stated these blocking maneuvers were undertaken under orders from the White House

www.buzzflash.coml
 

(12) A retired Air Force Colonel who flew over 100 combat missions and was the director of the Star Wars defense program under both Republican and Democratic administrations (and a member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth) recently said:
 

"If our government had merely done nothing, and allowed normal procedures to happen on that morning of 9/11, the twin towers would still be standing, and thousands of dead Americans would still be alive. That is treason!"

www.exerscape.com bowman-interview.mp3
 

(13) Recently declassified documents show that in the 1960's, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan to blow up AMERICAN airplanes (using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also committing terrorist murders against U.S. citizens on American soil, and then blaming it on the Cubans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba

abcnews.go.com story
and 
www.gwu.edu northwoods.pdf 
 

(14) The Secret Service, which is highly trained to whisk the president away from danger and to a secure location in the event of a threat, breached all standard procedures and allowed President Bush to remain at a highly-publicized location for 25 minutes after it was known that the nation was under attack

whatreallyhappened.com 9-11secretservice
 

(15) The U.S. defense agency responsible for protecting the U.S. had run drills for several years of planes being used as weapons against the World Trade Center and other U.S. high-profile buildings, and "numerous types of civilian and military aircraft were used as mock hijacked aircraft". In other words, drills using REAL AIRCRAFT simulating terrorist attacks crashing jets into buildings, including the twin towers, were run

usatoday news norad
 

(16) The military had also conducted drills of planes crashing into the Pentagon

mdw.army.mil Contingency_Planning_Photos
 

(17) On the morning of 9/11, 5 war games and terror drills were being conducted by several U.S. defense agencies, including one "live fly" exercise using REAL planes. And the drills apparently included the injection of false "radar blips" onto the screens of air traffic controllers

911truth.org article
and
fromthewilderness.com mckinney_transcript
or 
spiegltech.com /McKinney2.rm  (6 minutes and 12 seconds into the video);
fromthewilderness.com_simplify_case
 

(18) The government was running a simulation of a plane crashing into a building on the morning of 9/11

boston.com news_plane_exercise
 

(19) While the government has consistently stated that it did not know where the aircraft were before they struck, the Secretary of Transportation testified before the 9/11 Commission that Vice President Cheney monitored flight 77 for many miles as it approached the Pentagon

911truthmovement.org hamilton_win.wmv
 

(20) A third world trade center building, called building 7, collapsed on the afternoon of 9/11, but was never hit by plane, fell at the same speed as if there were no floors or walls to cause resistance, contained only small fires before the collapse, and became the first steel-frame building in history to collapse due to fire alone

www.wtc7.net

Mark, I try to take you seriously. I really do. But you just don't seem to read carefully and properly process information from me. It's hardly worth the effort.

I'll start with the suggestion that I was casting "racist insults." That's a tough one since I thought I was clear the first two times out but here goes another try. Most of those conspiracy theories had their genesis -- their birth -- in the Arab nations where they were not sure how to react publicly following the attacks of 9/11. I'm sure most were as shocked as we were. They were, on the one hand happy as larks to see such mass devastation, but on the other hand, the highest officials and most prominent citizens didn't want to be associated with terrorism. There was a great uneasiness as to what was to come. Case in point was when Yassir Arafat had the Australian news video of the Palestinians dancing in the street and handing out candy pulled from the videographer. Within a short time, it was clear that they should distance themselves from sympathy with Osama bin Laden. Official messages of sympathy came from the world over.

But then, almost as swiftly, came the denials. All over the Arab world, including the family of Mohammed Atta himself, they blamed the Jews. I can find you multitudes of references for this if you like. One common refrain was that no one was capable of pulling off such a hit except the Mossad. Another common refrain was that "who stood to gain?" The answer was Israel, and don't ask me to dredge up that convulted bit of logic for why though if need be, I can relive that as well. "Mother" Cindy Sheehan shares this belief.

The next evolution came in the person of Thierry Meissen, a French fabulist -- a creator of fantasy who happens to be closely linked with the Neo-nazi holocaust denial "movement." I can't help that fact but true it is. His 2002 book accurately titled "The Big Lie" was ridiculed from sea to shining sea when it first came out suggesting that remote control planes struck the Twin Towers and a missile struck the Pentagon and yada yada.

But allow a few more years for this stuff to simmer, toss in a pure and lethal dose of Bush hatred, then a second term of George Bush and the War in Iraq dragging on and people are beside themselves with a need to prove ever more evil came from that which they hate with a passion -- the Bush White House.

Back to "racial slurs." Now all of this ends up, as I mentioned before, on loads of cut and paste websites. In fact, it takes some effort to find real information on 9/11 since the Google Spaces are inundated with the cut and paste unsubstantiated websites. Many of them are anti-Jewish. Many of them are Neo-nazi. NOT all of them but a slew. I would venture to guess that your "fact" about the Silverstein insurance policy is all over such Neo-Nazi websites. I would also venture to guess that it's a meaningless bit of information whether it's true or not that Silverstein updated his insurance. Terrorism insurance? Ah, I doubt it. But I'll also venture to guess that if I start a goose chase to track down the facts on Silverstein and the "terrorism insurance," I'll find a lot of anti-JEWISH innuendo coming from the side who finds this suspicious. Hmmmmm..... What does it mean to you, Mark???

That is the way it goes with conspiracies in many many cases particularly where the culprits are actually Arab or Muslim terrorists. The blame becomes shifted back to Jews, Israel, American Jewish Neo-cons, and the Mossad. Or hadn't you noticed? Do you think I pulled this out of clear air?

I'm rambling on with the full knowledge you will not address what I've written so I'll finish up. But hope springs eternal, so onward.

When you state a professor's name with no connecting link or information about what it is I'm supposed to refute, that's a no go. Try one or two of what you think are the most convincing points you've heard from the mind boggling video "Loose Change 9/11" and I will deal with one or two at a time. They will probably take more than a few steps to reconstruct and I don't wish to write a book on the subject, which you won't read anyway. I deduce this fact since you won't comment on the very instructive 58 double-spaced page Khalid Shaikh Mohammed testimony. Prove me wrong.

I really would appreciate a full on engagement where we go step by step, if you like. If, however, you refuse to do your end, then I'm out for the count. It will only mean that you will persist in believing that which you have decided sounds like a damned fine movie plot regardless of facts.

A simple way to check the most prevalent of the BS associated with 9/11 should you not care to read the 9/11 report or any of the accompanying testimony, is to check Snopes.com. They debunk rumors and pretty successfully separate fact from fiction. Go to Rumors of War and check out all the 9/11 stuff. It's a starting point. I'll make it easy. Here's a direct link.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/rumors.asp

If you are still up for this discussion, like I said, give me one or two examples of the most egregious evidence of a US government conspiracy or a Larry Silverstein conspiracy -- whatever you find most compelling and awe inspiring.

And lastly, have the balls (which I know you DO have ) to state for the record your version of events based on the information you have now learned as a result of this fine documentary film. Asking a volley of questions with a HUH???? How about THAT??? will get us nowhere fast. Step by step.

Are you game?

Susan

PS  Any website with "truth" or "democracy" in its title is automatically suspect.  That's a universal truth!

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

OK, conspiracy theories are garbage.  Still, this thread got me to finally think about something that I've put off for four and a half years.

I was flying from Philadelphia to LAX that beautiful, sunny morning.  My employer likes to keep our travel budget low, so I had a brief stop in Chicago to change planes.  Since I left Philadelphia at 6am, I would still be arriving on the west coast about the same time as the passengers who boarded the hijacked planes, all direct flights, would have landed.

I was flying United.  The planes, both from Philadelphia and from Chicago, were Boeing 757s.  Both flights were COMPLETELY FULL--every seat was taken.

The air passenger fatalities reported that day were:

American Flight 11, Boeing 767, Boston to LA, 11 crew, 5 hijackers, 76 other passengers

United Flight 175, Boeing 767, Boston to LA, 9 crew, 5 hijackers, 51 other passengers

American Flight 77, Boeing 757, DC to LA, 6 crew, 5 hijackers, 53 other passengers

United Flight 93, Newark to SF, Boeing 757, 7 crew, 4 hijackers, 33 other passengers

Boeing lists passenger capacity for the 757 at 200 to 243 passengers, and the 767 at 181 to 245 passengers.

So, why were these flights so empty?  Did everyone decide to suddenly become thrifty and jam the connecting flights like mine?  How could a morning non-stop flight from Newark to the Silicon Valley area in 2001 have only 37 total passengers?  That's about one person for every six seats.

I'm sure that there are reasons for everything, I just don't know what they are.

Have fun with this, Mark.  Don't say I never gave you anything.

Taht is interesting B. Not really sure what to say but since people choose their flights, and I've never heard of anyone being redirected from one plane to another on 9/11...I don't know.

Mark - I'd suggest not use Blogs as your "proof." Just a small suggestion. I checked out some of the links on the blogs and some of them are errors (page not available).

And BTW - I wouldn't use Newsmax.com as your proof either - they are conservative magazine and would destroy any conspriacy theory in a second. :-) 

Jordan .

Professor Steven Jones, huh? Here's one on his "theory" which will soon be spouted in, guess what? -- a new book!

Susan

The BYU physics department has also issued a statement:

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

i got those links from a website jordan that had the various reason that were simplified out cant sya i have the time to check everything on there.

 also nuart i seen a conference on google with the professor you slated,like i said i only came across his views to day,so i dont wat other experts say but wat i will say is that in loose change the narrator states that none even the experts can agree so there seems to be a war of words there too.

also just because you see footage of muslims acting in ways which you described dont try to accuse every muslim in the middle east of this.after all more wars have been declared in christanitys name than islams.also because who see these people cheering 9/11 than makes your blood boil???

so you just come on here spewing all this stuff about muslims,i've seen many and im sure most of the middle east has seen videos of U.S troops behaving like its the middle ages in iraq.i recommend a few but they're more or less gruesome snuff movies as bad as any al qaeda video.

I'll give you some time to digest and reread what I wrote, Mark.  If that's not enough, well then, what can I say?  I'm still in the game if you are.

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

im always game,y not its like my very own vietnam on here theres no way i can ever win is there???

congratulations ur the north vietnamese

okay, whaddever. You can be South and I'll be North. You can be the Confederate States of America and I'll be the United States. Or, for even more fun, you can be the IRA and I'll be the English.

But seriously, Mark, this one is not exactly about winning, is it? At least I don't see it as a left-right, liberal-conservative, Democrat-Republican issue to sort through the terrorist attacks of September 11.

You still haven't told me your counter theory of What Really Happened.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Wikipedia on Dylan Avery and his original plan to make a fictional film about 9/11 where (surprise, surprise!) the US Government was behind it. Especially interesting are the debunking links at the end.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(video)

Then, oh my, this may be my favorite link of all -- 22 year old Dylan Avery's myspace page! Seems he's a high school graduate! Class of 2002. And that spells C-R-E-D-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y.

http://www.myspace.com/loosechange911

Seems like young Dylan has some enemies.  Probably the Neo-Cons in disguise:

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin