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51. Wednesday, January 3, 2007 5:39 PM
John Neff RE: Saddam Will Hang


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X-Ray, you hit the nail on the head with the euthanasia part. Saddam wasn't 'executed'... he was euthanised! It was a Mercy Killing! It releived the suffering of millions for him to go. Thanks for the tip. It is all clear to me now...

 
52. Thursday, January 4, 2007 7:20 PM
nuart RE: Saddam Will Hang


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Marty Peretz of the New Republic wrote this op-ed piece that makes a few good points.

"He Was His Own Accuser"
By MARTY PERETZ
January 3, 2007; Page A13

This is not the case of Oliver David Cruz, who was executed on Aug. 9, 2000. Cruz, whose I.Q. ranged from 63 to 83, had raped and murdered a 24-year-old woman stationed at Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas. If Cruz had lived until 2002, when the Supreme Court ruled the death sentence could not be imposed on mentally retarded people, he would have spent his life in prison. He was what we used to call, unsentimentally but truthfully, "an idiot." To me it was axiomatic that killing him was unjust. I do not ever really feel that the state is righteous when it snuffs out even a hardened criminal's breath.

*****

Saddam Hussein's execution was another matter entirely. Those who do not see that are blind to the implicit social compact of any polity, and to its always precarious situation. What this tyrant did in murdering hundreds of thousands and terrorizing millions more, within Iraq and outside it, was to normalize brutality, establish falsity and hysteria as the common language, and routinely invade the boundaries of private life. Saddam's crimes unraveled whatever authenticity and spontaneity was possible in the artificial confines of a post-Versailles state.

He also brought dread to this state's neighbors. Men and women trembled at his name. And for what purpose did Saddam put the people of Iraq and the region through these horrors? For the nihilistic purpose of sustaining his rule and that of his clan. And yet, as no one has reminded us in recent times, he also murdered kith and kin.

Seen from this perspective, the attacks on Saddam's death sentence, self-righteous and oh, so elementally moral, are petty and falsely framed. I am afraid it is the Vatican that has failed humankind most glaringly in this regard. True, it is not the Vicar of Christ who has spoken, but his designate, Cardinal Renato Martino, head of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace. Rome tends to speak portentously, urbi et orbi. Yet such speech is also often simple-minded.

"Capital punishment is not natural death," said Cardinal Martino. OK. That's obvious. So what? "Life is a gift that the Lord has given us," the cardinal continued, "and we must protect it from conception until natural death." In this rendering, are we supposed to imagine that Saddam is an innocent unborn fetus in his mother's womb? Is this a debate over abortion? Does Cardinal Martino have no conception of the dimensions of the tyrant's crimes? (Cardinal Martino does not always speak in such pabulum. He is often aggressive, as when he condemned the allied intervention in Iraq as a "war of aggression." The Vatican then told journalists that the cardinal was speaking for himself, not for John Paul II. Martino picked up many anti-American tropes during the 16 years he represented the Church at the U.N. Sixteen years, poor man, no wonder, he's a little overwrought and also disingenuous.)

Of course, many of the other critics of the death sentence do not speak of life as a benefaction from God. The folks who echo Amnesty International's denunciation would be horrified at the sheer thought. Ditto the European Union. The same for Romano Prodi, the socialist prime minister of Italy. And the antiterrorism officer at the U.N. Plus the governments of France, Denmark, Portugal, Spain and Germany.

Marco Pancetta, head of the Radical Party in Italy, had declared a hunger strike, was ready to go to Baghdad to petition for a "pardon." Yes, a hunger strike. Until death? Does Cardinal Martino believe a hunger strike natural? And, yes, a pardon. Was he out of his mind? Saddam's death has cheated Mr. Pancetta of his foolishness. Had the convict lived, we would have had to endure candlelight vigils throughout the soft countries. Soft power, indeed.

The burden of most of these objections to the death penalty is that the trial was not really fair. Now, these were certainly the most judicious legal proceedings ever held in modern Iraq. Is this not superior to victors' justice? The defendant had legal counsel of his own choosing, among them Ramsey Clark, not so mentally stable is my guess, but a former attorney-general of the U.S. and not an easily intimidated advocate. What's more, as Fouad Ajami has pointed out, the accused performed histrionics that were tolerated even though they made havoc of courtroom order. If Saddam were the accused in a U.S. tribunal, he would have been bound and gagged. In Saddam's own Iraq, he would have been lashed, at a minimum.

The Arab world is somewhat split about the sentence. Yemen, little Yemen, has actually announced that the country "unanimously" condemns everything about the trial: the process, the verdict and the punishment. You get some sense of what political discourse is like in a state where everything is (or is said to be) unanimous. Doubtless, Sunni Baathists were very close to unanimous in opposing it. But the Arab world and its non-Arab Muslim cousins, whatever they feel about the armed foreign presence in Iraq, could not honestly make the case against the penalty of death -- although some made the argument nonetheless. It is simply too routine, too ingrained in the fabric of their societies to be shocking. After all, you can juridically be condemned to death for having committed adultery (that is, if you are a woman), for stealing, for heresy and blasphemy. Moderate Arabs will breathe a sigh of relief now that the dictator is dead. And also those non-moderate Arabs whom he threatened.

Two surprising trends, one a great relief. The relief is that the people of Western Europe seem to be more sensible than their governments. Even the French, the Italians, the Spanish and others support the taking of Saddam's life. Like the Poles, and their prime minister, Jaroslaw Kaczynski. You have to have lived under a tyranny within your own memory to know why the tyrant should be punished, and punished decisively.

The other trend is a bit confusing. It shows itself especially in our stalwart ally, Great Britain, where the Labour government still adheres to the traditional alliance, in war and in peace. Margaret Beckett, Tony Blair's foreign secretary, spoke strongly in support of the hangman's noose.

But, ironically, there were counter-indications from the Tory right. Frustrated by its years in the political wilderness, the Conservatives much resent Labour's alliance with George Bush, even though they ridicule it. The brilliant showman-parliamentarian Boris Johnson, shadow minister for higher education, elicited from Ms. Beckett's predecessor, Jack Straw, already two years ago a statement of opposition to the ultimate penalty. Relying on Britain's longstanding opposition to capital punishment, they were working in consort against Mr. Blair's fidelity to how America sees the world. The prospect of Saddam's hanging would be their instrument.

Another, more recent sign of Conservative estrangement (not the only one) from the historically axiomatic bond with the U.S. is a querulous on-line column by the querulous Peregrine Worsthorne asserting that "Saddam was a butcher, so was Truman." Now, this is not a logical argument for anything. But his point was that Saddam's "cruel tyranny had at least provided the people with a degree of security quite unimaginable under conditions of freedom and democracy . . . a reign of fear may be the only effective system of government." This is cynicism of an especially low order. And if it gains currency in the house of Winston Churchill, where can it not become common wisdom?

* * *

Saddam has already swung from the ropes. May his soul be tormented for eternity. If Saddam were a pious and literate Christian -- actually, he wasn't even a pious Muslim -- he might have recognized, as Dante did for Nimrod, that "he was his own accuser." His life is its own accusation.

The question, then, is not whether Iraq will recover from the oppressor's death. The question is whether Iraq will recover from the oppressor's rule. The execution of this monstrous man was not intended to be a deterrent to evil. There are probably no deterrents to real evil and real evildoers. But a community can punish its own pharaohs. That punishment will be the most significant sovereign act the people of Iraq have ever done. This is an act of recovery by itself.

Mr. Peretz is editor-in-chief of The New Republic.

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
53. Friday, January 5, 2007 10:09 PM
nuart RE: Saddam Will Hang


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In a minute I'm off to watch the 1974 Black Christmas or Monsieur Ibrahim on DVD.  Just wanted to share this comparison of mainstream media coverage of death of a tyrant 1945.  I'd always heard about this event but never read the contemporary news story.

Just kind of an interesting contrast between journalism of two eras.

Susan 


Monday, May 7, 1945
Death in Milan

 

mussolini-hanging-out.jpg

 

The death Benito Mussolini and his mistress by Italian Partisans in April 1945.

 

Death came last week to Benito Mussolini, from the rifles of an Italian firing squad. As his body lay, reviled and spat upon, in a public square of Milan, it was as though the pent-up jury of a nation was beating upon the senseless clay of the man who had led it to vainglory, shame and disaster. From TIME Correspondent Reg Ingraham came this eyewitness report of one of history's raw spectacles:

"For My Murdered Sons!" The first of the Fascist dictators was the first to meet death at the hands of the people he had so long oppressed. This Sunday morning (April 29), in a sun-drenched square not far from Milan's center, where 22 years ago Editor Benito Mussolini launched the Black Shirt March on Rome, his battered, bullet-riddled corpse sprawled in public display. His head rested on the breast of his mistress, comely Clara Petacci, who had died with him. Around him stretched the bodies of 16 of his Black Shirt henchmen.

When I and other correspondents reached the scene, a howling mob was struggling for place beside the heap of cadavers. Partisan guards vainly fired rifle and pistol shots into the air to keep the crowd back. We drove our jeep to the edge of the scene, I clambered atop the hood.

While I watched, a civilian tramped across the bodies and dealt Mussolini's shaven head a terrific kick. Someone pushed the twisted head into a more natural position again with a rifle butt.

Although the Duce's upper teeth now protruded grotesquely, there was no mistaking his jaw. In death, Mussolini seemed a little man. He wore a Fascist Militia uniform — grey breeches with a narrow black stripe, a green-grey tunic and muddy black riding boots. A bullet had pierced his skull over the left eye and emerged at the back, leaving a hole from which the brains dripped. Mistress Petacci, 25 -year-old daughter of an ambitious Roman family, wore a white silk blouse. In her breast were two bullet holes ringed by dark circles of dried blood.

The mob surged and swayed around the grisly spot. One woman emptied a pistol into the Duce's body. "Five shots!" she screamed. "Five shots for my five murdered sons!" Others cried: "He died too quickly! He should have suffered!" But the hate of many was wordless. They could only spit.

"I'll Give You an Empire!" As near as can be pieced together at this time, in this fashion, from the last days of Benito Mussolini.*

On Sunday, April 22 men went on strike. The city's German garrison correctly interpreted this as the prelude to a revolt, withdrew from the streets into their barracks. On Wednesday a general strike was called. Demonstrations against the Germans and Fascists swept through the city. That evening Mussolini, as chief of the Republican Fascist Government, and his War Minister, Marshal Rodolfo Graziani, met with partisan representatives. Terms of surrender "were discussed. Mussolini cried: "The Germans have betrayed me!" Bombastically he asked for one hour's time to inform the German High Command of his displeasure.

Before the hour expired, the Duce, who in his fustian prime had bellowed to his followers, "If I retreat, kill me!" was in headlong flight. At 9 p.m. he reached Como near the Swiss border. At 2 a.m. Thursday he sent an envoy to ask Swiss authorities to grant asylum to his wife, Donna Rachele, and their children. The Swiss emphatically declined. About 6 a.m. Mussolini sneaked northward presumably in the hope of reaching Germany. According to one report he joined a German truck convoy trying unsuccessfully to disguise himself in a German officer's overcoat. He was spotted near Dongo and held for arrest.

A partisan commander known by the nom de guerre "Eduardo" dispatched ten men and an officer to "settle the matter." They found the dictator and his mistress in a cottage on a hill outside the village. When he saw his countrymen approaching, Mussolini thought they had come to liberate him. Joyfully he embraced his Petacci. When he learned that he was under arrest, his face turned yellow with fear and fury. He cried: "Let me save my life, and I'll give you an empire!"

But the partisans gave him short shrift. He was bluntly informed that he had been condemned to death. After a brief "trial," the 16 other Fascists in the Duce's party were also adjudged guilty. The Duce's last words as he faced the firing squad were: "No! No!"

The bodies of the 18 were loaded into a moving van and trucked south to Milan. There, at 3 a.m. Friday, they were dumped in the old Piazza Loreto, now renamed Piazza Quindici Martiri, in honor of 15 antiFascists recently executed there.

"It Is Finished." The bodies lay on the ground for many hours. Then, to give the mob a better view, the partisans hanged Mussolini and Petacci by their feet from a scaffold on the Piazza. "Hah!" jeered an onlooker, "Mussolini has become a pig!"

Shortly before noon today the bodies were removed to a mortuary. Mussolini and Petacci were dragged like sacks of grain into a high-walled courtyard. Men, women & children followed, climbing the brick wall and peering over at the shapeless pulp that was the Duce's face. The people's temper, as though satiated, seemed calmer now. "At last, it is finished," said one quietly. "He was punished by God."

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
54. Saturday, January 6, 2007 12:29 AM
Raymond RE: Saddam Will Hang


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Interesting comparison. Europe no longer remembers those war years and the hell on earth that can occur as a result of the "soft pedal" enduring and placating of fascists. Chamberlain et al... And the US, especially the "journalists" are in modern popular Europethink sinc. Sink works with the sinking ship analogy of one of Susan's posts. The "in" approach is to bend over backwards, sacrifice native history, culture and slowly while not believing it is happening or possible, watching the stealthy loss of freedoms. All to placate the modern jihadist enemy. To cover one's eyes to real problems and concentrate on the easy, unthreatening and therefor completely safe targets.-- The "true" bad guys- half of the the US and any who support their more virile approach to an encroaching problem. Seems like the Ist concern is to see that invaders are not riled up. They must be catered to in hopes of above all no trouble. The coming years and decades will be filled with the Chinese curse of living in interesting times.

 
55. Sunday, January 7, 2007 6:33 PM
cybacaT RE: Saddam Will Hang


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I like your style Raymond...

 
56. Monday, January 29, 2007 12:51 PM
nuart RE: Saddam Will Hang


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Saddam came in second place in this poll about Arab personalities in 2006. It's a just posted Egyptian news poll, obviously unscientific but interesting all the same. I'll check back later and see if the trend toward Nasrallah of Hezbollah continues. A sorry bunch.

Check it out.

Susan

Poll of the week
Which Arab personality has moved the Arab world the most in 2006?
Total Votes: 236
Saddam Hussein 37.3% createOneGp(220,1,'#c2a335',0,37,37.3,'right')
Hassan Nasrallah 55.1% createOneGp(220,2,'#96c235',0,55,55.1,'right')
Nuri Al Malki 3% createOneGp(220,3,'#16b683',0,3,3.0,'right')
Ismail Haniyeh 4.7%

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
57. Tuesday, January 30, 2007 8:51 PM
nuart RE: Saddam Will Hang


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Dead but not forgotten. Or maybe not dead? Hmmmmmm???? In the Arab world, conspiracy theories rule the day. Here's the latest from Egypt.  How can a functional society exist when this passes muster?

Susan

THE MIDDLE EAST MEDIA RESEARCH INSTITUTE
Special Dispatch Series - No. 1445
January 30, 2007 No.1445
New Conspiracy Theory in Egypt: It Wasn't Saddam But His Double Who Was Executed

A new conspiracy theory has gained currency in Egypt in recent weeks, according to which it was not Saddam Hussein, but rather his double who was executed. Also, it was not his two sons 'Uday and Qusay who were killed during the war, but their doubles.

The book Saddam Was Not Executed and 'Uday and Qusay Were not Killed - The United States' Lies and the Double Game, by Egyptian researcher, author, and journalist Anis Al-Daghidi (363 pp), was published in early January 2007. In it, the author claims that Saddam Hussein was never captured, and that it was his double that was executed. [1]

Mahmoud Nafi', a columnist for the Egyptian government daily Al-Gumhouriyya who rejects Al-Daghidi's claims, presented further details on the contents of the book: "The first thing that Al-Daghidi focused on to prove that it was not Saddam who was executed but his double was the mole on his forehead or on his temple. The 'real' Saddam Hussein did not have such a mole, and thus the Saddam who was put on trial was his double, Mikhail Ramadhan, whose real name is Makhluf Ramadhan…

"In addition, Saddam's hair was thick, whereas the hair of the double we saw in court was thin…

"The Iraqi-Iranian doctor Muhammad Asasidi who conducted scientific research on Saddam… made a computer-aided comparison of the ear of the 'Saddam' who was caught and tried, and photos of [the real] Saddam's [ear] when he was the Iraqi vice-president - that is, before he had a double… and found that there was a clear difference between the ears…

"Some Iraqis who are capable of distinguishing among Iraqi dialects say that they can recognize the original Saddam [even] without a picture, since Saddam's dialect is that of Iraqis from the central region, whereas his double spoke the dialect of the southerners.

"Another proof is the difference between Saddam's handwriting and that of his double, as can be seen from their way of writing the letters 'ta' and 'ya'… and in the way they write the diacritical marks…" [2]

The Egyptian government daily Al-Ahram wrote that in his book, Al-Daghidi called the death of Saddam Hussein's sons an enigma, since there is no information on Saddam's response to their death, or on how they died, and why their bodies were not delivered to their mother. The book claims that 'Uday Hussein's double was a certain Latif Yahya. [3]

Similar claims were made by a lecturer in statistics and mathematics at Cairo University, 'Adil 'Abd Al-Qadir, who said that, based on a mathematical theory, "the Arab mujahideen managed to liberate Saddam from his prison, and he was not executed. The person who was executed was not Saddam, but rather the double 'with the mole'…" [4]


[1] Al-Rai' (Kuwait), January 17, 2007.

[2] Al-Gumhouriyya (Egypt), January 25, 2007.

[3] Al-Ahram (Egypt), January 18, 2007.

[4] Al-Rai' (Kuwait), January 14, 2007.

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
58. Wednesday, February 7, 2007 3:29 PM
Raymond RE: Saddam Will Hang


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Just an addition to Lets Rogue's problematic case of executing an innocent person.

With the advances of blood and dna analysis and other forensic techniques available to us over the past ten years, the chances of a wrong murder verdict are greatly diminished. That longshot of convicting the wrong person are nearing astronomical odds, Thank you to the scientists and technicians who have all but taken the " wrong suspect" out of the debate, 

 

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