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251. Tuesday, February 5, 2008 10:10 PM
jordan RE: 2008 Presidential Race

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Obama just finished speaking. Nice speech. The blonde behind him on the right hand of the screen annoyed me tremendously! She cheered; she laughed; she applauded; she fought back tears; she cheered; she cried; she cheered; she wiped tears away; she cheered again; she cried; she got support from the woman next to her; she wiped her tears; she cheered; she smiled; she cheered and wipes tears again....

Even Fox News mentioned her - twice! They were positive about it.

Looks like Obama may have also squeaked it out in Missouri. He's up by 1% with about 98% in. California will be interesting. But looks like Hillary is going to keep her lead.


Jordan .

 
252. Tuesday, February 5, 2008 10:15 PM
jordan RE: 2008 Presidential Race

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Five minutes after I posted, FNC called California for Hill-dog. Of course, since Democrats do their delegates differently than the GOP, not sure how many delegates she will get yet.


Jordan .

 
253. Wednesday, February 6, 2008 8:35 AM
LetsRoque RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Looks like my bet is good. thnx guyz...u rock xoxo

 

 


'I look for an opening, do you understand?'
 
254. Wednesday, February 6, 2008 11:49 AM
jordan RE: 2008 Presidential Race

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This isn't official yet, but NBC is at least reporting that Obama won the most delegates last night. Obama PR sent out an email today and according this article (last paragraph):

"The Obama campaign attached an Excel spreadsheet containing “state-by-state estimates of the pledged delegates we won last night, which total 845 for Obama and 836 for Clinton — bringing the to-date total of delegates to 908 for Obama, 884 for Clinton.” "

If true, Obama is on his way to win the Democratic nomination. And with a ton of Southern states still needing to do their primaries (Louisiana, Texas, etc) and a strong African-American population in Maryland, Virginia, etc coming up also, Obama may very well pull ahead further. Good news for Obama. Bad news for Hill-dog. And probably bad news for the GOP because frankly, if Obama gets the nom, it's going to be  very hard for the GOP to win, IMO.


Jordan .

 
255. Wednesday, February 6, 2008 1:34 PM
Raymond RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Yeah, but Jordan what about the Super delegates-likely to lean to Hillary? Are they included and what are the Dems gonna do with Michigan and Florida? I hope they are out and are not allowed, but with the Cs and there tactics ?

My opposition to Hillary overules the November campaign. McCain is a true hero but his maverick tendencies are hard to handicap. He will be 72 y o but he does seem to be full of energy. Anyway I'm a registered Libertarian -finally in California.

Oh, Anne Coulter says she will support and campaign for Hillary over McCain. She loves to shock.

 
256. Wednesday, February 6, 2008 3:53 PM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Hahaha, I'm back! After a 24-hour cable/internet outage that meant I got NO election coverage last night, I am back on line and with a functional television too. So, what happened yesterday?

One thing was interesting at my polling place and throughout California. The Republicans wanted this new thing for the heavily Democrat areas though I think this is true in the entire state. If you register as a "D(ecline)T(o)S(tate) -- aka an "Independent" -- you are allowed to request an Independent ballot with non-Republicans and non-Democratic candidates OR you can request a Democratic ballot. You cannot ask for a Republican ballot. Reason? I guess the reasoning goes that they didn't want Democrat voters in to load up on Ron Paul if they decided not to vote in the Democrat election.

Well, whatever. It was confusing for lots of independents who were closeted Republicans and who had always voted Republican. Many of them had forgotten how they were registered and did not know the "new rules." They had to vote for the Dems or an independent or not at all. Bad choice.

Oh, who did I vote for? Romney. Man, did I shock myself! I only did it because I wanted to choose the second most viable (at this point anyway) Republican candidate. I'm a little ashamed. But then again, I was backed into an untenable corner.

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
257. Wednesday, February 6, 2008 4:32 PM
Raymond RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Your vote was about all you could do. I know Romney is a cardboard looking guy and his reachout to black voters was embarrassing. He says " Who let the dogs out...woof woof. " ( circa 2000) and " Oh you have bling bling." Cringe worthy. But what else could you do ?

I'd like to see Obama get the Dem nom and i guess it will be McCain for the Reps. i don't underestimate the Clinton machine and would like it defeated now so there is no chance of a Hillary president and I know as Lets pointed out Hillary would be easier to defeat in Nov.  I can live with Obama or i guess McCain. The hope is that once elected Obama would be pragmatic and make some reasonable leadership as Bill Clinton did on ocassion. Anyway the president proposes and the congress disposes. 

 
258. Wednesday, February 6, 2008 5:50 PM
JVSCant RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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I haven't been following this end of things... in point form if possible, can someone explain to me why conservatives, or at least the hard base, hate McCain so much?  I mean, Giuliani looked like a halfway credible candidate for at least a couple of weeks, but now nobody else can touch McCain unless the world goes topsy-turvy... What's the deal?


 
259. Wednesday, February 6, 2008 6:43 PM
Raymond RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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1) the Mccain Feingold election " reform'.

2) the "gang of 14" dem and reps who worked together.

3) McCain wanting amnesty for 13 million illegals.

4) McCain was against the tax reductions years ago.

5) His Maverick style.

Those are just points without explanation-please excuse Jamie, but that gets it started.

I'm out the door.

 
260. Wednesday, February 6, 2008 7:03 PM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Jamie, I know some of the stated reasons the conservatives give for disliking candidate McCain. 

1. He voted against the Bush tax cuts.

2. He is not hard enough on illegal immigration for them and this is a biggie, though I am in basic agreement with Bush, McCain and Guiliani's more pragmatic approach. I do not consider illegal immigration a big pressing issue though.

3. He worked with the liberal Feingold for the McCain-Feingold plan. This was a campaign finance reform that conservatives believed limited free speech. I tend to agree with this and think that each of the reforms has made for a worse situation. Meaning that limiting the amount to $2300 per contributor to individual politician makes for the need to constantly be fund-raising. I'd rather have an open free contribution with the full transparency of who was giving how much to whom. That way if you see that Microsoft gave one candidate a gazquillion dollars you could factor that into your decision to vote for him/her or not.

4. Kerry is good friends with McCain and in 2004 there was talk of his being Kerry's VP running mate. Remember? The assumption is that "reaching out across the aisle" has been a one-sided thing for the Republicans and that for McCain, the reach is not too tough because he's already there.

5. He votes in favor of federally funded embryonic stem-cell research.

6. He has been larged loved by the press because of his crossing party lines maverick style. Because of this, conservatives believe his election would lead America toward being a one-party country with a left, middle, and right.

I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons but these are the oned that stnd out in my memory.

Here's 53 other reasons

Maybe that will help. But as I said before, actually voting for a presidential candidate is less about these kind of specifics. My housekeeper (from El Salvador and previously Republican though a non-voting non-citizen) likes Hillary because she likes Bill. My friend with whom I had lunch yesterday is a lifetime Democrat. She thinks Obama's wife pushes him around. I overheard two guys at Home Depot today saying they voted for Hillary because Obama was too "vague." One of them said he voted for two Republicans in his life -- Mayor Riordan and Governor Schwartzeneggar. My middle-of-the-road friend said he voted for Hillary because she is a "conservative Dem."  Hahaha.

 

Quien sabe?

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
261. Wednesday, February 6, 2008 10:11 PM
JVSCant RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Thanks, both of you!


 
262. Thursday, February 7, 2008 5:15 PM
JVSCant RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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They called him "Mittens", but he always struck me as more of a glove man.



 
263. Thursday, February 7, 2008 5:38 PM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Guess my reluctant vote was the Kiss of Death for Mitt(ens).  He's over and out.  Let's see, that leaves... Huckabee and Ron Paul?  And John McCain. 

Now that I understand Hillary had to dig into her personal coffers for an extra $5 million, maybe things are as grim as I would hope they are in  Camp Clinton.  I'm keeping Hope ALIVE, because Yes, I Can Can.

By the way, how does 35 years of experience, presumably in the public sector, translate into having $5,000,000 to spare for a presidential campaign?  Do the Clintons have a joint-checking account, do you suppose?  Oh well. 

Susan  


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
264. Thursday, February 7, 2008 7:27 PM
Booth RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:


I am getting a kick out of the juxtaposition of the word "fudge", and Romney looking like he's getting ready to perform some kind of rectal examination.

 
265. Thursday, February 7, 2008 8:41 PM
Raymond RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Doc Romey's office :

Freaked Patient " Oh for #$%#^^ sake. One finger Doc , i don't need a second opinion !"

 
266. Friday, February 8, 2008 2:00 PM
Booth RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Or, it's like this
02:00-02:37

 
267. Friday, February 8, 2008 11:39 PM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Pretty good commentary from Peggy Noonan:

Can Mrs. Clinton Lose?

By PEGGY NOONAN
February 8, 2008; Page W14

If Hillary Clinton loses, does she know how to lose? What will that be, if she loses? Will she just say, "I concede" and go on vacation at a friend's house on an island, and then go back to the Senate and wait?

Is it possible she could be so normal? Politicians lose battles, it's part of what they do, win and lose. But she does not know how to lose. Can she lose with grace? But she does grace the way George W. Bush does nuance.

She often talks about how tough she is. She has fought "the Republican attack machine" that has tried to "stop" her, "end" her, and she knows "how to fight them." She is preoccupied to an unusual degree with toughness. A man so preoccupied would seem weak. But a woman obsessed with how tough she is just may be lethal.

Does her sense of toughness mean that every battle in which she engages must be fought tooth and claw, door to door? Can she recognize the line between burly combat and destructive, never-say-die warfare? I wonder if she is thinking: What will it mean if I win ugly? What if I lose ugly? What will be the implications for my future, the party's future? What will black America, having seen what we did in South Carolina, think forever of me and the party if I do low things to stop this guy on the way to victory? Can I stop, see the lay of the land, imitate grace, withdraw, wait, come back with a roar down the road? Life is long. I am not old. Or is that a reverie she could never have? What does it mean if she could never have it?

We know she is smart. Is she wise? If it comes to it, down the road, can she give a nice speech, thank her supporters, wish Barack Obama well, and vow to campaign for him?

It either gets very ugly now, or we will see unanticipated--and I suspect professionally saving--grace.

I ruminate in this way because something is happening. Mrs. Clinton is losing this thing. It's not one big primary, it's a rolling loss, a daily one, an inch-by-inch deflation. The trends and indices are not in her favor. She is having trouble raising big money, she's funding her campaign with her own wealth, her moral standing within her own party and among her own followers has been dragged down, and the legacy of Clintonism tarnished by what Bill Clinton did in South Carolina. Unfavorable primaries lie ahead. She doesn't have the excitement, the great whoosh of feeling that accompanies a winning campaign. The guy from Chicago who was unknown a year ago continues to gain purchase, to move forward. For a soft little innocent, he's played a tough and knowing inside/outside game.

The day she admitted she'd written herself a check for $5 million, Obama's people crowed they'd just raised $3 million. But then his staff is happy. They're all getting paid.

Political professionals are leery of saying, publicly, that she is losing, because they said it before New Hampshire and turned out to be wrong. Some of them signaled their personal weariness with Clintonism at that time, and fear now, as they report, to look as if they are carrying an agenda. One part of the Clinton mystique maintains: Deep down journalists think she's a political Rasputin who will not be dispatched. Prince Yusupov served him cupcakes laced with cyanide, emptied a revolver, clubbed him, tied him up and threw him in a frozen river. When he floated to the surface they found he'd tried to claw his way from under the ice. That is how reporters see Hillary.

And that is a grim and over-the-top analogy, which I must withdraw. What I really mean is they see her as the Glenn Close character in "Fatal Attraction": "I won't be ignored, Dan!"

* * *

Mr. Obama's achievement on Super Tuesday was solid and reinforced trend lines. The popular vote was a draw, the delegate count a rough draw, but he won 13 states, and when you look at the map he captured the middle of the country from Illinois straight across to Idaho, with a second band, in the northern Midwest, of Minnesota and North Dakota. He won Missouri and Connecticut, in Mrs. Clinton's backyard. He won the Democrats of the red states.

On the wires Wednesday her staff was all but conceding she is not going to win the next primaries. Her superdelegates are coming under pressure that is about to become unrelenting. It was easy for party hacks to cleave to Mrs Clinton when she was inevitable. Now Mr. Obama's people are reportedly calling them saying, Your state voted for me and so did your congressional district. Are you going to jeopardize your career and buck the wishes of the people back home?

Mrs. Clinton is stoking the idea that Mr. Obama is too soft to withstand the dread Republican attack machine. (I nod in tribute to all Democrats who have succeeded in removing the phrase "Republican and Democratic attack machines" from the political lexicon. Both parties have them.) But Mr. Obama will not be easy for Republicans to attack. He will be hard to get at, hard to address. There are many reasons, but a primary one is that the fact of his race will freeze them. No one, no candidate, no party, no heavy-breathing consultant, will want to cross any line--lines that have never been drawn, that are sure to be shifting and not always visible--in approaching the first major-party African-American nominee for president of the United States.

* * *

He is the brilliant young black man as American dream. No consultant, no matter how opportunistic and hungry, will think it easy--or professionally desirable--to take him down in a low manner. If anything, they've learned from the Clintons in South Carolina what that gets you. (I add that yes, there are always freelance mental cases, who exist on both sides and are empowered by modern technology. They'll make their YouTubes. But the mad are ever with us, and this year their work will likely stay subterranean.)

[weathervane]

With Mr. Obama the campaign will be about issues. "He'll raise your taxes." He will, and I suspect Americans may vote for him anyway. But the race won't go low.

Mrs. Clinton would be easier for Republicans. With her cavalcade of scandals, they'd be delighted to go at her. They'd get medals for it. Consultants would get rich on it.

The Democrats have it exactly wrong. Hillary is the easier candidate, Mr. Obama the tougher. Hillary brings negative; it's fair to hit her back with negative. Mr. Obama brings hope, and speaks of a better way. He's not Bambi, he's bulletproof.

The biggest problem for the Republicans will be that no matter what they say that is not issue oriented--"He's too young, he's never run anything, he's not fully baked"--the mainstream media will tag them as dealing in racial overtones, or undertones. You can bet on this. Go to the bank on it.

The Democrats continue not to recognize what they have in this guy. Believe me, Republican professionals know. They can tell.



     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
268. Saturday, February 9, 2008 10:43 PM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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The "O"mentum is on!  Obama takes them all tonight -- Washington, Louisiana and Nebraska!

Let's get on with the real deal, kids!  Out with the Baby-Boomers; In with the New!

Susan 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
269. Sunday, February 10, 2008 8:19 AM
jordan RE: 2008 Presidential Race

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BTW - Raymond - don't worry about those superdelegates. AFter seeing the results this weekend, even if all of the superdelegates voted for Hillary, Obama would still have more delegates once the rest of the states finish up. The upper midwest still needs to vote and I think Obama will get those. If Hillary was losing in the delegate lead at this point, she should just close shop because I think the rest of the elections will be to Obama.

TX and Mississippi need to vte and it'll be close in TX, but Obama will barely take TX, and in Mississippi, Obama will win. Obama will win Oregon (after seeing the WA results). He will also take MT, WY and SD. That leaves the Ohio VAlley region which I've already predicted. Remaining states are northeast states which will have a tendency to vote Clinton. But these states are so small that they may not matter.

AT this point we should keep our eye on Maryland (will go to Obama if the African American vote stays as is), Virginia (Obama), Ohio (Obama - strong African American area and next to Illinois), Texas (Obama - very close here due to the Hispanic vote which tends to go Clinton), Pennsylviania (very close - Clinton), North Carolina (Obama).

I also predict we'll be seeing a lot more of Hillary crying...

AOL has a nice page of the primaries.


Jordan .

 
270. Sunday, February 10, 2008 9:21 AM
herofix RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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My new prediction:

This will go to at least Pennsylvania!

I think Obama can take one of the big March 4 states, but I'm not sure it will be Ohio.  Word around the campfire is that Texas has a confusing hybrid primary/caucus which take place on the same day, with only those who vote in the primary allowed to caucus.  My spidey-senses tell me this gives Obama a boost, due to the narrative of Obama being well-organised with activists, performing well in caucuses and his supporters ready to walk across broken glass for him. 

Now you would think that with Obama's big momentum coming out of February, if Clinton's 'big state' strategy didn't pay off in BOTH Texas and Ohio, she'd pack it in.  But these are the Clinton's and I don't think they will.  Despite Jordan being correct that a majority of the 20 remaining states will opt for Obama.

Clinton wins if: she takes Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania, and has at least a tiny lead in pledged delegates. In this scenario, the Democratic establishment falls in line with the old ways of thinking, and Clinton hammers on and on about Florida and Michigan being seated.

Obama wins if: he takes at least one of Texas, Ohio or Pennsylvania and retains at least a tiny lead in pledged delegates.  Looking at a map of states won and lost will show Obama with a largeish majority of states taken, a feeling that the Clinton campaign strategy failed, and Edwards and Gore should (one would think) come out in favour of Barack.  Hillary does what she has never had to do before, and steps down in order to avoid all-out warfare at the convention for the good of the party.

I'd actually be surprised if Obama put Hillary on his ticket if he won.  I think Hillary might opt to put Barack on her ticket if she wins, but I just don't know.

 

 


An Inverted Pyramid of Piffle
 
271. Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:33 AM
jordan RE: 2008 Presidential Race

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Obama will not put Hillary on his ticket. He can't if he wants to talk about real change. She's a dead-on target for the GOP in the general election.

I agree with everything you say above. However, I tend to think Hillary only needs 2 of the 3 big states to win, while Obama needs only 1 of them as long as he caucuses well in the others. It's so hard to figure this out because it's not winner takes all with the Dems.

The Clintons will fight tooth and nail for the nomination. The question is whether or not they are willing to close shop for the good of the party. If the Clintons start doing everything they can to win, they might very well splinter the Democratic Party if it gets too harsh. The Clintons are too smart for that though. A brokered deal behind the scenes would probably ensure this wouldn't happen - Obama putting Bill into a nice seat somewhere in the administration while Hillary works in the Senate.

Meanwhile, in the GOP Race, well, it's just plain boring over ther! :)


Jordan .

 
272. Sunday, February 10, 2008 12:24 PM
The Staring Man RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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      If Hillary gets the nomination: Obama will be on the ticket. Hillary will do what ever it takes to win. This would be the two headed monster that the Republicans fear come November. The Republican slime machine will be in full force and Hillary will need Obama to keep the Democratic momemtum strong.

      If Obama gets the nomination: Hillary will go to the sidelines and get her cup of water and ponder "What Happen!!!!!".  I'm not sure who he would choose for a running mate but I would like to throw out a couple of possibilities. Bill Richardson, Colin Powell (extremely doubtful), Joe Biden or perhaps a more senior female senator, such as Barbara Boxer or Dianne Feinstein.

    I still think McCain and Huckabee will pair up at some time. McCain needs the conservative wing support and Huckabee could help him.

   The other possibilty is McCain asking Condoleezza Rice to be his running mate. Its sounds a bit far fetched but why not. The Republicans have to think outside the box at some moment. Could this be it?

Oh BTW,

     Obama had his rally in Seattle's Key Arena. The attendance was nearly 20,000 with 3,000 outside hoping to get in.

     Hillary had her rally at one Seattle's smaller colleges before a crowd of 10,000-12,000.

    McCain's rally was held in a Hotel ballroom with 700 in attendance.

All this equalled Obama kicking the competitions ass in Washington.

 


"The only thing that Columbus discovered was that he was lost"
 
273. Sunday, February 10, 2008 3:07 PM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Rob writz: I'm not sure who he would choose for a running mate but I would like to throw out a couple of possibilities. Bill Richardson, Colin Powell (extremely doubtful), Joe Biden or perhaps a more senior female senator, such as Barbara Boxer or Dianne Feinstein.
 

I'm thinking Mark Warner, former Governor of Virginia, and once a candidate himself before he wimped out.  THAT would be a winning team, methinks.  Bill Richardson is too... addled or something these days. It doesn't seem as if he can tie a tie or tuck in his shirt or comb his hair these days.  Something is wrong there. Colin Powell does not want to run for elected office. He likes Obama very much though and may endorse him if he's the candidate.  Wouldn't surprise me and that would be a very favorable turn of events. Joe Biden -- old news. Old man.  Too mouthy.  And then there's always that plagarism thing that has dogged him for years.  As for the California Girls.  Hmm I don't think so.  I rather think he's not going to empty out the Congress of any more of their Dem seats.

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
274. Sunday, February 10, 2008 4:06 PM
The Staring Man RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Ah yes, Mr. Warner did think about running for about 10 minutes. Do you think he would be a good running mate? You're probably right about not touching the folks in congress. This is a wide open possibilty for someone to make a mark. I guess we'll just have to wait for now


"The only thing that Columbus discovered was that he was lost"
 
275. Sunday, February 10, 2008 5:01 PM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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I really was rooting for Warner, Rob.  He was elected by Republicans in a traditionally Rep. state and was a popular governor.  He's a successful businessman too - pragmatic.  He's young(ish) and good looking.  Obama-Warner sounds good.

Obama is projected as today's winner in Maine!

 

Susan 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 

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