Wouldn't that forever destroy Huckabee's cred on issues dear to the hearts of his base?  They take those issues Super-seriously.  I can't see it (but I've been wrong before).

Are we witnessing a battle for the heart and soul of the GOP?  Methinks maybe, and if Giuliani is the nom, the party will be changed and the evangelical religious right camp will be shoved to the sidelines, and might even look elsewhere than the GOP.

B - anything is posisble at this point. Wouldn't be a bad ticket either. For Rudy to ensure a victory, he's probably going to have to do something like that.

"Are we witnessing a battle for the heart and soul of the GOP?  Methinks maybe, and if Giuliani is the nom, the party will be changed and the evangelical religious right camp will be shoved to the sidelines, and might even look elsewhere than the GOP."

We've been witnessing this for about 10 years now. Here's the thing, there's too many people in the DNC that come across anti-religious (esp supporters) that in order for the Christian right to move elsewhere they would have to form their own party. This would be like the African American Democratic bloc pulling from the DNC. It would destroy the GOP as we know it and ensure DNC victories for years. However, I believe the vast majority in the Christian right would rather have Rudy and the GOP than Hillary and the DNC. Obama changes things a bit because of his charisma.

Jordan .

So... any views on why FOX News is locking Ron Paul out of the debate? Doesn't that kind of filtering sort of put the lie to their "We Report, You Decide" slogan?

Paul's pretty clearly more relevant than Thompson, and ABC is including him. At the Fox News website, there's no mention of the controversy, which has already caused New Hampshire's GOP to drop its support of the event -- or, if there is, it's buried so deep it might as well not be there.

http://www.unionleader.com/article with a long URL that stetches the page out too far

"We cannot allow a mine shaft gap"

Ron Paul is as much a Republican as David Duke. He is as much a factor in the Republican party's nomination process as Dennis Kucinich will be to the Democrats. Which is to say, not at all. I have no idea what the stated reason is for Fox not including him but I'm fine with it. As I would have been for those past Democratic candidates like Al Sharpton who saw running for president as a personal fundraising opportunity.

Ron Paul is widely supported by 9/11 "Truthers" and the neo-Nazi white supremacist group Stormwatch. He takes their contributions, does not denounce them and does not return their donations. A nutcase of the highest order, he, like Dennis Kucinich, says he would eliminate all income tax completely (oh, isn't that appealing and equally realistic...) and bring home every troop that is overseas the day after his inauguration. Uh, huh. That's likely.

Absurdist. He should simply start a website and call it a day.

Susan

Haha, I guess the rainy weather gave me the wrong signal and I wrote the name of the Neo-Nazi group as "Storm Watch" which is what our local weather people always say when it rains.  I meant StormFront. 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Danwhy and Jamie -

FNC isn't the only one kicking people off of their debates:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-7199604,00.html

Here's what's funny. Paul is quoted as saying: "They are scared of me and don’t want my message to get out, but it will" and then I check FNC's website and I find this op-ed piece --- for a network who is scared of Paul, it would seem to me that they would remove any positive stories about him.

I'm concerned that Kucinich isn't in the debates - I think he needs to talk about UFOs more.

---

Jordan .

Lol, but that means no crowd shots of Kucinich's wife!

From the debates tonight which I half watched while working I think Edwards and Obama easily beat Clinton and Romney got ganged up on with McCain being the winner.  Guiliani was not a factor and Huckabee came off as smug.

"We cannot allow a mine shaft gap"

I'm not watching hte dbeates - I usually don't watch until the general election. Just watching a movie tonight.

However, I find it funny - one of the blogs I read, his thoughts was that Paul was horrible, McCain and Romney squabbled too much and that made them both look bad, Rudy was weak on immigration but good on foreign policy, Huckabee came across fine for the most part except on foreign policy, and Thompson was the winner even though he seemed sleepy. LOL!

Jordan .

Just throwing this out here --- I'm beginning to think an Obama/Edwards ticket might be coming down the pipe. They are both threatened by Hilldog, and together they can dismantle the Clinton machine which would set them up for a nice ticket combo.

Jordan .

What a difference a couple of days makes!

Just checked paddypower.com again to see if the odds for NH primary had changed much.  Not hardly.

Obama is now 4/11 on!

Clinton 15/8

Edwards 20/1

For GOP

McCain is 1/4 on

and Romney 13/5.

So now we know where the money is going.  Whether it's smart money or people betting with their hearts and not their heads we will find out very shortly.

Here's a fun one for everybody who likes a flutter:

 Next scandal to emerge

Singles Only. Applies to only Democratic and Republican presidential candidates. Must be a new scandal and not anything previously reported pre Jan 2008. Must be confirmed by Bloomberg, CNN or Fox News.

Adultery 2 - 1

 Draft dodging 10 - 1

Bigamy 20 - 1

Tax irregularities 3 - 1

Fraud 10 - 1

Shop Lifting 50 - 1

Drugs abuse 5 - 1

Gay/Lesbian affair 12 - 1

Terrorist link 100 - 1

DUI (Drink Driving) 5 - 1

Prostitution 16 - 1

Murder 200 - 1

Campaign Financing Irregularities 9 - 1

Okay, but nobody's concerned that 10%-in-Iowa Paul is out, while 4%-in-Iowa Giuliani gets to play? Not fishy? Not unusual? No hidden agenda? Private organization, they can do what they want?

Paul's a relevant horse in this race, even if some don't think he's a "proper Republican" (defintion?), and for FOX to exclude him is not normal. Yes, ABC also excluded people, on the basis of numbers; there's no such rationale in this case.

I mean, it's your democratic system, it's all sports to me. (Except not really, because what happens in the US affects the world, but you know what I mean.) In Canada, the networks kept the Green Party out of the debates during the last actual federal election, and it was actually an issue that the other party leaders addressed publicly.

There's no question Paul's a crank, and I've linked to the Stormwatch contribution story on another forum where some libertarians had set up a shrine-thread to him to try bringing them back from their swooning a few steps. But there's also no question that he's a big part of the story of this year's election process.

edit: last sentence had an extra "not" that made it say the opposite of what it does now... 

FNC is not just looking at Iowa. They are looking at other polling results., I have to assume they are looking at national poll numbers. Take a look at RealClearPolitics.com and you'll see that Paul is consistentnly in the single digits:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national-primary.html

(great website BTW)

Now one could argue that the NH polls would indicate that he should be in the debate, but the national poll shows him as a non-issue.

Personally, I think he should be there. Anyone running in the caucus should be there. But I'm not concerned, just like I'm not concerned that ABC kicked out a few people either. Did they do it for ideaology reasons also? If FNC did it, then ABC must have too but I only Kucinich upset about that one!

All we have to do is look at National polls to see WHY Paul wasn't asked to the debate.

Jordan .

It's FNC. Everything they do is fishy. Same with CNN. I stopped relying on either of those as credible news sources years ago. They can limit the debates to Homer Simpson and Peter Griffin for all I care.

~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

Jordan .

"We cannot allow a mine shaft gap"

Since everybody's been so impressed and interested in me posting betting odds updates (erm...)

Once again, odds for NH primaries from Paddypower:

Obama 1/20 on (Obviously trying to stop themselves from taking a large hit, it seems)

Clinton 7/1

Edwards 40/1

And for Republicans:

McCain 1/14

Romney 6/1

Guess that's all rolled up and sealed with a nice bow then. :) Next!

Oh lordy!  I believe in Barack with my audacious hope an' all, but this surprises even me!

http://www.electionbetting.com/article.php?articles_id=60

once the snowball starts rolling, it just gets bigger nad bigger. And only the scream of Howard Dean could bring it to an end.

It's still way too early, but it does indeed look like Obama might be the guy.

And if memory serves me right, Susan called it way back when.

I post above and then see this on Drduge:

RASMUSSEN: Clinton's lead in national polling collapse... now Clinton 33 Obama 29; Before Iowa showed Clinton 41 Obama 24... Developing...

Rasmussen does a 4 day rolling poll so he shows real treands rather than the others which do snapshots of a day or two.

Jordan .

lol @ the dean scream

4 years later

from Drudge....

TALK OF HILLARY EXIT ENGULFS CAMPAIGNS
Mon Jan 07 2008 09:46:28 ET

Facing a double-digit defeat in New Hampshire, a sudden collapse in national polls and an expected fund-raising drought, Senator Hillary Clinton is preparing for a tough decision: Does she get out of the race? And when?!

"She can't take multiple double-digit losses in New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada," laments one top campaign insider to the DRUDGE REPORT. "If she gets too badly embarrassed, it will really harm her. She doesn't want the Clinton brand to be damaged with back-to-back-to-back defeats."

Meanwhile, Democrat hopeful John Edwards has confided to senior staff that he is staying in the race because Hillary "could soon be out."

"Her money is going to dry up," Edwards confided, a top source said Monday morning.

MORE

Key players in Clinton's inner circle are said to be split. James Carville is urging her to fight it out through at least February and Super Tuesday, where she has a shot at thwarting Barack Obama in a big state. But others close to the former first lady now see no possible road to victory, sources claim.

Developing...

[The dramatic reversal of fortunes has left the media establishment stunned and racing to keep up with fast-moving changes.

In its final poll before Iowa, CNN showed Clinton with a two-point lead over Obama. Editorial decisions were being made based on an understanding the Democratic primary race would be close, explained a network executive.]

Jordan .

Obama will need to sustain this wind at his back for another 10 months but IF he is the nominee, it just seems to me he can beat any of the Republican candidate in the running. 

But... 10 months is a loooong time to stay charismatic and Camelotish.  

But... with the fawning press, it may not be so hard.  What?  They're going to suddenly shift affection and go for Romney?  McCain?  

Obama is on my TV right now.  He's losing weigh and losing his voice.  

As a Republican, I can't help but believe in the possibility...

...as he is saying right this moment on my TV....

...a man who approached him at a rally and whispered...

"Barack, I'm a Republican.  But I support you." 

Sometimes you just have this feeling you are watching history.

Susan 

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin