"It's not so bad as long as you can keep the fear from your mind." - D. Cooper

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer." - P. Atreides

"Whoever can see through all fear will always be safe" - L. tzu

Of course,  Republican's wasted how many millions of dollars on abstinence training?  Obviously, Little Juno skipped class for a quicky in the four wheeled drive pick up truck with mud flaps and gun rack.

That's my issue with the right wing christian fascist; If they can't use their brains for an intelligent thought, argument or decision they use "Its god's will" as an answer.  Please stop using the invisible man in the sky (who doen't exist) as a basis for your problem solving methods. There is no god!!! There is mankind who live with the decisions they make.

Well, this gal however you feel politically is a real woman. Alaska is the second energy producing state and home grown energy is necessary to reduce the need for energy supplies from unfriendly countries. She has pushed that approach successfully. She has pushed out 5 kids and looks good too. McCain should do 4 years and then pass the torch to a Gen X woman. While i thought Bill Clinton did a good job domesticly ( energy planning was a weak point) I think Gen X people may be better than my Baby Boomer generation.  In general I think Baby Boomers have shown themselves to be selfish, mushy folks.

 The anti woman attack by most of the media, giving Obama a free pass and dismissing Hillary and Palin is offensive to me. The media should not elect people the people should based on actual unbiased reporting.

I also find the joke of Alaska as a cheap shot. Like Arkansas is a powerhouse? I like a candidate from outside the beltway. Outside the establishment. a proven reformer against her own party. As Rudi said Alaska is not flashy enough to produce a candidate?  

In the words of those astute Spice Girls " Girl Power!" I am a New Yorker and respect heartland people.

There is no chance of Roe v. Wade being reversed. A large % of Reps are for womens' personal rights. Staring is right, there must be and will be seperation of church and state. As George Carlin advised " Keep thy religion to thyself."

Side issue: I think career politicians who have done nothing else in their lives except forty years in the Fed government leads to entrenchment and like day follows nite corruption. Take George Washington, a general and whiskey mill owner goes to Washington for a limited time and than goes back to the whiskey stills. Professional life long politicians are IMO a big problem both Dems and Reps. One could have a worse approach than voting out any incumbent after 8 or 10 years.

By the way, as a Libertarian , I would legalise drugs, or leave it up to the states. Anyone with me on that one? I thought not. : ) Repeal the Harrison Narcotics Act.

Very scary developments.  I would not be psyched to have McCain, and infinitely less so with Palin on the ticket.

 Why is everyone so sure that Roe v Wade would never get overturned?  All it would take is another 1 or 2 judges and a single lawsuit- its out of the electorate's hands at that point.

I was disappointed to see the media's attacks on Palin after her announcement- it was kind of sexist.  However, any sympathy I had for her have evaporated as she continues to spew that rediculous "community organizer" line, and the fact that even though she knew she was an option for many weeks, she apparently couldn't be troubled to learn what a her positions are and has been off-limits to the media except for her sarcastic soundbites. 

 McCain's adds have taken a new low too- his latest basically calls Obama a pediphile.  Real classy.

 http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpo...istorts_o_1.php

 Toxic stuff.  At least bush let his swift-boaters do the dirty work, but I guess the GOP has decided to stop pretending their candidates have an ounce of class.

Were it not for the Internet, there would be no discussion of "community organizers" "pigs with lipsticks" and oh so many other meaningless trivial ridiculous waste of time off-handed comments that any human beings spout while on the political trail to the White House. 

I despair.

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

 Yes and no- I think this sound-bite politics is much more the fault of Television news/Talk Radio rather than the internet.  The internet makes it easier to look up actual sources or find a broader range of perspectives.  Unfortunately on the internet (as with TV) people tend to prefer places that confirm their pre-existing opinions.

 The level of discourse hasn't been raised at all for this election, it seems. It is tres dispiriting.  One would have thought that the internet should have given everybody the means to talk about relevant topics and research them better, Susan - but it doesn't seem to have happened much.  Let's hope it IS happening some under the radar and it's just that CNN et al don't actually realise that yet.

The 'sex ed' ad is pretty brutal and low by even recent standards.

 On a different tangent, I'd really love to see Obama tackle sub-prime/Fannie & Freddie/Bear Stearns - Lehman Brothers etc. really hard.  I think that's a winner now, because right now is about the only time a person in his position can really come out and say it - 'The free-market ideological zealotry is looking very frayed around the edges.'  Challenge your opponents to discuss how the financial architecture should be changed so that regulators have the teeth to stop these chancers from privatizing the billions of dollars of profit and then socializing the billions of dollars of fubar-tasticity.  Ask McCain how he'll save social security and see if he mentions anything that can be interpreted as gambling it on the stock market.  C'mon Barack!  Be bold on the economy and leave any attempts to drag you into the culture wars behind!  

Right you are, Hero.  Fortune does favor the bold and some of that quality should be sprinkled around at long last.

 (How are you, btw???)

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

Once again I can turn to Mr. Russell to sum up my feelings, from his 'Philosophy for Laymen' found in Unpopular Essays;

"But so long as men are not trained to withhold judgement in the absence of evidence, they will be led astray by cocksure prophets, and it is likely that their leaders will be either ignorant fanatics or dishonest charlatans"

To which I would only add; 'or some combination of the two.'

"It's not so bad as long as you can keep the fear from your mind." - D. Cooper

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer." - P. Atreides

"Whoever can see through all fear will always be safe" - L. tzu

Sara and I are both University of Idaho graduates. Go Vandals. Oh man, I can use the Alumni assoc. as a link to the VP. Hey, maybe Raymond goes to Washington ; yeah that's it...

doddle doodle ip

doddle doodle ip

zzz....Raymond has been invited to the VPs house to finish up a piece of work. Sara has confided in Raymond that she and Todd are drifted apart since she took the job. Raymond sidles up to Sara and from behind holds her and nuzzles his long nose in her hair....

Yikes.

The greatest country in the world, population 300 million and this lady makes it to the endgame of the race for the White House. US citizens surely deserve a better menu selection than this, especially given the last 8 years.

...and then there was today .  YIKES! 

I feel like our entire ant colony has been sprinkled with tabasco sauce!  

EEK!

What now?

Susan

     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

Ben Franklin

I'm holeup in my recession apartment--misery likes company. No guts to look for stocks yet. falling knife thing an all. Closing Bell. Thank goodness I am only 17% er make that 15 % in stocks and most pay dividends, if the financial banking system works.  I'm gonna have a screwdriver triple. Orange juice,

FDR, my friends "... nothing to fear but....."

The sun will rise (on Campobelo )

FDIC should raise coverage limits per institution for depositors X10 

I'm with the rebel republicans on this normalisation exercise. Well done. This deal would have tripled the already sky high US national debt and you guys would be paying for bad stewardship with your taxes for years to come.

This is actually strengthening the dollar too. 

some commentators are now suggesting that the next version of the bill is going to have more money in it. The "gimme-gimme" attitude from all sectors of the US is killing this country. Now that Wall Street has jumped onto the bandwagon so blatantly after watching airlines, automakers, and the average Joe, it's going to cripple the US.

The problem of course is that doing nothing may also cripple the US! UGH!

There's no easy way on this one. We're screwed one way or the other.

Jordan .

This panic, high volume plunge, end of the world , front page NYSlimes, blood in the streets is looking like a stock market bottoming event. The housing values should be set by next summer, so the economy will limp for another 9 months-that is a good case scenario assuming bank to bank and commercial paper rates get back from being skewed out of wack thus allowing payroll coverage, auto, student, credit card, even mortgage availability. The stock market, a forward indicator of 6 to 9 months, could remain near the bottom for the rest of the year and recover in early 2009. or not. 

Perhaps one more panic day with closes slightly below yesterday in the coming days or weeks. That would be a solid average bear market drop of around 31-32 %. 

here's an interesting article from a guy from Harvard  -- we should just let the market deal with it and govt stays out of it.

Now that things are calming down from the past week or so, it looks like this is a case of really bad govt decisions that have bit us in the butt.

Jordan .

Blame to go around. Dems e.g. Frank, Dodd and going back to the dem push for getting lower income people into homes (1999) without regard to the problem that developed. And no real regulation enforcement ( 40 to 1 leverage -allowed???) by the Treasury/SEC and suspension of the 'up tick rule' and no enforcement against naked shorting ( short selling is OK but not without identified borrowed shares for such a trade). Inside baseball but the Fin Accout Stand Board must review mark to market accounting treatment although I don't completely understand the true value in such a change. Did I ever tell you guys I'm a CPA. Well I was licensed in Idaho anyway. he he

McCain did try to stop the Freddie Fannie scandal with legislation to address the problem in 2005. It was killed.  Obama as senator in 3 short years received the second most funds from Fred and Fanny ever. Sheesh man, I'd be embarrassed on that one.

Every 8 years we overheat a major sector and then the balloon pops. I've seen this movie before. Stuck a toe in and bought one stock today. Unlike yesterday this rally was done with thin volume which is not that encouraging.

 Socialist!

Ron Paul is so bummed out with you right now.

I'm not a complete idealogue.  Let's work together my fellow citizens.

Oh man, every stock down big today-even my gold is way down !!

Worldwide slow down will still be there after any legislation. Running low on Vodka my friends. European banks should drop rates and the Fed should also.

Just walked to the stores and bought house brands.

Back on direct topic. Barring ( one r or 2 ) any October surprise, Obama can win. But if voters think any universal healthcare is in the future -forget it, with the massive budget outlays that is out of the question. Period.

Skoal !!  

Nice find...even more interesting is something I said in that thread 2 years ago which puts a smile on my face because I was pretty much correct:

Now there is one huge problem in the consumer portion of the economy - growing credit card debt. There are two things that will kill the US economy - rise in oil prices, and credit card debt ballooning so big that people can't get out of it (which was what happened in the 90s and continues to happen).

I was wrong on the "credit card" debt but correct with regards to debt. The issue the US is experiencing right now is due to the fact that govt and other organizations (like ACORN - a group Obama is assocated with) was pushing banks to provide home loans, credit, etc to people wtih poor credit. I remember B said in this forum at one point that people need to be careful of the ARM type of mortgage. Why I remember that I'm not sure but when I started hearing about people defaulting on their ARM loans, I immediately thought of B's comments.

So these poor credit folks weren't able to keep up with their mortgages, defaulting on their loans helping to cause this issue. It is NOT entirely the past 8 years that have caused this or specifically the Bush admin. Fault can be found in previous laws on the book involving Fannie and Freddie which the govt promised to cover their losses if people with poor credit faulted on their loans. Fannie and Freddie both have gone under. It's the fault of govt wanting to socialize certain things for banks and other people to help more people - making promises that ultimately hurt us all.

And then it doesn't help when these banks turn around and sell these loans off to others and through the stock market because when things start going sour we have a huge ordeal on our hands - and that's why we see this domino effect of banks from around the world now going under - all our economies are tied together now through the stock market and international banks that what happens in the US can and will have a direct effect elsewhere, and vice-versa.

At least that's how I understand this entire mess. Ray and B might be able to confirm what I've said or say I'm totally off-base.

Jordan .