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101. Saturday, June 2, 2007 10:27 AM
jordan RE: 2008 Presidential Race

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in response to Danwhy's poll posting from Rasmussen - Congress' ratings are also down. Last I saw was 35% and that's with a Democraticly controlled Congress -- same Congress who hasn't gotten much done in 100 days as promised.

After this week, and Bush attacking Conservatives and their unhappiness about the amnesty bill, expect Bush's numbers to drop another point or two, if not more. If there's not a 180 degree turn with this immigration bill, expect Bush's and Congress' numbers to continue to drop as long as 69% of Americans believe that illegals should be prosecuted and deported. Not to mention Bush's base jumping ship. At this rate, when Bush leave office his numbers will be less than Carter's when he left office.

Which leads us to the 2008 Presidential Race. With more and more Americans refusing to call themselves Republican or Democrat, and their general unhappiness with both parties, expect to see outsiders get the push from the grassroots. And whoever is the most outside of either party will also win the presidency. Right now, only Fred Thompson looks like an outsider (even though he was a senator). I expect Thompson to push pass the GOP candidates. Democrats need to find an outsider to compete against Thompson -- the closest they have is Obama who is less an outsider than Thompson.


Jordan .

 
102. Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:04 AM
Raymond RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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I found a considered, politically savy article by Camille Paglia- a Democrat of all things. I appreciated her accumen and opinions on the 08 marathon.

 http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2007/06/13/gore/

Worth a review.

 
103. Wednesday, June 13, 2007 3:08 PM
Raymond RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Well Jordan, G. W. Bush has alot of resentment and lack of support from Republicans. The garbled mess immigration bill, a case for the Iraq war being carried out on a Rumsfeld shoestring. The course of a war is hard to handicap , but a case can again be made for less than crystal ball post fall planning. Record setting Fed spending ( in spite of a sound tax cut. ). So, as can be seen in the debates, candidates are distancing themselves from Bush. Gingrich, regardless of Dems' opinion of him has lowered the boom on old George.  As you point out, the approval of the Dem congress is even lower. That is the backdrop we now have with the kicker of the Dems suspect on anti terror.

Notice Rudy is pro-choice and Thompson is pro-life. That old rhetorical saw with no real consequence, could be a serious weight -not in the primaries, but in a general election. 

 
104. Saturday, June 30, 2007 1:36 PM
danwhy RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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It's been kind of quiet lately so this one's for Susan and all animal lovers.  It's a 24 year old incident but contains mitt's comments from this week about it.

Romney Defends Strapping Dog in Kennel on Station Wagon in 1983

Friday, June 29, 2007

BOSTON —  An example of Mitt Romney's crisis management skills has turned into something of a political problem for the Republican presidential contender.

Romney placed his family dog, an Irish setter named Seamus, into a kennel lashed to the top of his station wagon for a 12-hour family trip from Boston to Ontario in 1983. Despite being shielded by a wind screen the former Massachusetts governor erected, Seamus expressed his discomfort with a diarrhea attack.

Now the story, recounted this week in a Boston Globe profile of Romney, has touched off howls of outrage from bloggers and animal rights activists even though it was presented in the story as an example of Romney's coolness under trying circumstances.

When Romney's eldest son, Tagg, and his four brothers complained about the brown runoff down the back windshield, their father quietly pulled the car over, borrowed a gas station hose and sprayed down both the dog and the kennel before returning to the road.

"Massachusetts animal cruelty laws specifically prohibit anyone from carrying an animal `in or upon a vehicle, or otherwise, in an unnecessarily cruel or inhuman manner or in a way and manner which might endanger the animal carried thereon,"' wrote Steve Benen in a post on the blog "Crooks and Liars."

Ingrid Newkirk, president of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, told Time magazine's "Swampland" blog: "If you wouldn't strap your child to the roof of your car, you have no business doing that to the family dog!"

Romney dismissed any outcry about the 24-year-old incident, saying the dog enjoyed his rooftop perch.

"He scrambled up there every time we went on trips," Romney said at a campaign stop in Pittsburgh Thursday. "He got it all by himself and enjoyed it."


"We cannot allow a mine shaft gap"

 
105. Saturday, June 30, 2007 5:42 PM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Wha' happened to my response to Danwhy?  I guess I neglected to post it in my haste today.

Well, essentially what it said is that I am no fan of Romney's.  He's not my candidate.  It would be hard for me to vote for him if he is the Republican candidate.  I just don't care for him.  He feels like the consumate fake politician to me.  But having heard this story I like him less.  

I know there are many ways of over-indulging pets and some may suggest that feeding an 85 pound lab breakfast in bed every morning at 6:30 is one of them.  Or staying in the mobile dog groomer's van when she is given her bath.  But I don't think so.  Hoisting a dog in a crate atop a vehicle for a 12 hour drive seems harsh to me.  And the diarreah is very sad.  Naming your son "Tagg"  (clearly a dog's name) -- and your dog "Seamus"  (clearly a human name like Mia Farrow and Woody Allen's kid) just seems even more sad. Probably named his IRISH Setter after an IRISH poet.  Clever.

Since I don't like Romney in the first place, it won't affect my vote.  Now if Rudy had done that, I'd be very disappointed.  I don't think that Rudy would have though. 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
106. Tuesday, July 24, 2007 9:12 PM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Pretty interesting stuff from George Friedman of Stratfor. He seems to think both the Dems and the Reps are acting rather suicidal. Well, I guess suicide is all the rage these days.

But he does explain why the position of President of the United States is not all that the rest of the world imagines it to be. I agree. Which is why I didn't care who won the last election or this next one either except for how the perceptions ripple outward.

Susan

Gaming the U.S. Elections

July 24, 2007

By George Friedman

Domestic politics in most countries normally are of little interest geopolitically. On the whole this is true of the United States as well. Most political debates are more operatic than meaningful, most political actors are interchangeable and the distinctions between candidates rarely make a difference. The policies they advocate are so transformed by Congress and the Supreme Court -- the checks and balances the Founding Fathers liked so much, coupled with federalism -- that the president rarely decides anything.

That is not how the world perceives the role, however. In spite of evidence to the contrary, the president of the United States is perceived as the ultimate "decider," someone whose power determines the course of action of the world's strongest nation. Therefore, when presidents weaken, the behavior of foreign powers tends to shift, and when elections approach, their behavior shifts even more. The expectation of change on the burning issue of Iraq is based on the misperception that the American presidency is inherently powerful or that presidents shape the consensus rather than react to it.

The inability of Congress to make any decisive move on Iraq demonstrates that immobility isn't built only into the presidency. The two houses of Congress are designed to be gridlocked. Moreover, the congressional indecision reveals that behind all of the arias being sung, there is a basic consensus on Iraq: the United States should not have gone into Iraq and now that it is there, it should leave. There is more to it than that, though. The real consensus is that the United States should not simply leave, but rather do it in such a way that it retains the benefits of staying without actually having to be there. To sum up the contradiction, all of the players on the stage want to have their cake and eat it, too. We are only being a trifle ironic. When all is said and done, that is the policy the system has generated.

The United States has been in roughly this same position with the same policy since World War II. The first time was in 1952 in Korea, when the war was at a stalemate, the initial rationale for it forgotten and Harry Truman's popularity about the same as President George W. Bush's is now. The second time was in 1968, when any hope of success in the Vietnam War appeared to be slipping away and Lyndon Johnson's presidency collapsed.

In both cases, the new president followed the logic of the popular consensus, regardless of whether it made sense. In the Korean instance, the national position favored decisive action more than withdrawal -- as long as the war would end. In Vietnam the demand was for an end to the war, but without a defeat -- which was not going to happen.

During Korea, Dwight D. Eisenhower appeared a formidable enemy to the Chinese and his secret threat of using nuclear weapons seemed credible. The war ended in a negotiated stalemate. In the case of Vietnam, the public desire to get out of Vietnam without a defeat allowed Richard Nixon to be elected on a platform of having a secret plan to end the war. He then continued the war for four years, playing off the fundamental contradiction in the consensus. Adlai Stevenson, who ran against Eisenhower, might not have been nearly as effective in convincing the Chinese to close the deal on Korea, but we doubt that Hubert Humphrey would have differed much from Nixon -- or that Bobby Kennedy, once in power, would have matched his rhetoric with action.

Yet the fact is that the world does not see the limits of the presidency. In the case of Iraq, the perception of the various players in Iraq and in the region is that the president of the United States matters a great deal. Each of them is trying to determine whether he should deal with the current president or with his successor. They wonder who the next president will be and try to forecast the policies that will break the strange consensus that has been reached.

Therefore, we need to begin handicapping the presidency as we did in 2004, looking for patterns. In other words, policy implications aside, let's treat the election as we might a geopolitical problem, looking for predictive patterns. Let's begin with what we regard as the three rules of American presidential politics since 1960:

The first rule is that no Democrat from outside the old Confederacy has won the White House since John F. Kennedy. Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were all from the Confederacy. Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis and John Kerry were from way outside the Confederacy. Al Gore was from the Confederacy but lost, proving that this is necessary, but not a sufficient basis for a Democratic win. The reason for this rule is simple. Until 1964, the American South was solidly democratic. In 1964 the Deep South flipped Republican and stayed there. If the South and mountain states go Republican, then the Democrats must do extraordinarily well in the rest of the country. They usually don't do extraordinarily well, so they need a candidate that can break into the South. Carter and Clinton did it, while Johnson did extraordinarily well outside the South.

The second rule is that no Republican has won the White House since Eisenhower who wasn't from one of the two huge Sunbelt states: California or Texas (Eisenhower, though born in Texas, was raised in Kansas). Nixon and Reagan were from California. Both Bush presidents were from Texas. Gerald Ford was from Michigan, Robert Dole from Kansas. They both lost. Again the reason is obvious, particularly if the candidate is from California -- pick up the southern and mountain states, pull in Texas and watch the Democrats scramble. Midwestern Republicans lose and northeastern Republicans do not get nominated.

The third rule is that no sitting senator has won the presidency since Kennedy. The reason is, again, simple. Senators make speeches and vote, all of which are carefully recorded in the Congressional record. Governors live in archival obscurity and don't have to address most issues of burning importance to the nation. Johnson came the closest to being a sitting senator but he too had a gap of four years and an assassination before he ran. After him, former Vice President Nixon, Gov. Carter, Gov. Reagan, Vice President Bush, Gov. Clinton and Gov. Bush all won the presidency. The path is strewn with fallen senators.

That being the case, the Democrats appear poised to commit electoral suicide again, with two northern senators (Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama) in the lead, and the one southern contender, John Edwards, well back in the race. The Republicans, however, are not able to play to their strength. There are no potential candidates in Texas or California to draw on. Texas right now just doesn't have players ready for the national scene. California does, but Arnold Schwarzenegger is constitutionally ineligible by birth. In a normal year, a charismatic Republican governor of California would run against a northern Democratic senator and mop the floor. It's not going to happen this time.

Instead, the Republicans appear to be choosing between a Massachusetts governor, Mitt Romney, and a former mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani. Unless Texan Ron Paul can pull off a miracle, the Republicans appear to be going with their suicide hand just like the Democrats. Even if Fred Thompson gets the nomination, he comes from Tennessee, and while he can hold the South, he will have to do some heavy lifting elsewhere.

Unless Obama and Clinton self-destruct and Edwards creeps in, or Paul does get a miracle, this election is shaping up as one that will break all the rules. Either a northern Democratic senator wins or a northeastern Republican (excluding Thompson for the moment) does. The entire dynamic of presidential politics is in flux. All bets are off as to the outcome and all bets are off as to the behavior of the new president, whose promises and obligations are completely unpredictable.

If one is to ask whether the Iranians look this carefully at U.S. politics and whether they are knowledgeable about the patterns, the answer is absolutely yes. We would say that the Iranians have far more insight into American politics than Americans have into Iranian politics. They have to. Iranians have been playing off the Americans since World War II, whatever their ideology. In due course the underlying weirdness of the pattern this year will begin intruding.

Here is what the Iranian's are seeing: First, they are seeing Bush become increasingly weak. He is still maintaining his ability to act in Iraq, but only barely. Second, they see a Congress that is cautiously bombastic -- making sweeping declarations, but backing off from voting on them. Third, they see a Republican Party splitting in Congress. Finally, they see a presidential election shaping up in unprecedented ways with inherently unexpected outcomes. More important, for example, a Giuliani-Clinton race would be so wildly unpredictable that it is unclear what would emerge on the other side. Any other pairing would be equally unpredictable.

This results in diplomatic paralysis across the board. As the complexity unfolds, no one -- not only in the Iraq arena -- is sure how to play the United States. They don't know how any successor to Bush will behave. They don't know how to game out who the successor to Bush is likely to be. They don't know how the election will play out. From Iraq and Iran to Russia and China, the United States is becoming the enigma and there won't be a hint of clarity for 18 months. 

This gives Bush his strange strength. No president this low in the polls should be acting with the confidence he shows. Part of it could be psychological, but part of it has to do with the appreciation that, given the strange dynamics, he is not your normal lame duck. Everyone else is tied in knots in terms of policy and in terms of the election. Bush alone has room to maneuver, and the Iranians are likely calculating that it would probably be safer to deal with this president now rather than expect the unexpected in 2008. 

 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
107. Friday, August 10, 2007 5:00 PM
JVSCant RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:

Yesterday I read about Giuliani standing up (a little bit) to the social-conservative faction of the Republicans by saying the party-at-large had to get over itself on the pro-life, anti-gay stuff. I thought, well, that showed a good intuition.

Today I read this, and I'm wondering if yesterday was just an accident on that "intuition" thing.

No longer wondering.

And what the hell kind of rebuttal is "Edwards thinks the War on Terror is a bumper sticker"? Did someone get paid to write that for his handler, or did she put it together herself?



 
108. Saturday, August 11, 2007 12:26 PM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Does anyone really take seriously the quips of a political hack?  I don't think you should.  If you do you are in the Camp of the Manipulated which is what it's all about.  Ignore.

Susan 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
109. Saturday, August 11, 2007 6:56 PM
JVSCant RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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My vice isn't taking the content seriously -- it's my stubborn expectation that people in jobs of importance, or at least high position, will display evidence of suitability for their work, or at least competence. I'm old-fashioned that way.


 
110. Sunday, August 12, 2007 12:55 AM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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You shouldn't be. They pander to each sector of the population on an as needed basis. Remember my boy Zimmerman from way back in the dark ages?

Now, the man on the stand he wants my vote
He's a-runnin' for office on a ballot note
He's out there preachin' in' front of the steeple
Tellin' me he loves all kinds of people.
He's eatin' bagels, he's eatin' pizzas, he's eatin' chitlins.


Flash forward 40 years or so.  Plus le change; plus c'est la meme chose or whatever it is you French types parlevous to describe this political phenom. But it all makes sense when you think about the end game. Getting elected.  Getting the most votes from the most people based on the most ephemeral of quotients. People like a candidate or they don't. Last minute undecideds can change on a dime.  F'rinstance,  I did that for Arnold during the Gray Davis recall which I thoroughly opposed. I wanted to cast my vote for Gray Davis, who was going to lose big time and all the polls said so.  But I thought the recall was, partisan, unfair -- strictly political. In the final weeks before the election,  the LA Times ran a series of articles about the "gropenator" Ahnold. I was so irritated by their silly attacks that I decided to vote for Arnold at the very last moment as I walked up to my polling place.  Try to manipulate me and I'll show you!  Even if it means cutting off my nose.  Damn!  Who wants to be manipulated so transparently?  

I think a lot of people make that final decision based on the most meaningless of perceptions. I try to ignore the most meaningless of political commentary. It's all so much blah-blah-blah.  Anyway, then you have to try to sort out the essence of a person and vote for your fave realizing the best don't generally run for public office in the first place.  In spite of all that, it's worked pretty well for a couple centuries.

Two glasses of Pinot Grigiio later... 

Susan


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
111. Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:57 PM
Raymond RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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She wasn’t elected, appointed or hired by the Clinton administration, yet she was making decisions on national issues?

Regarding Hillary : 

The Los Angeles Times reports that calendars, memos and reams of other records from the office of the first lady in the Clinton administration will stay off-limits to public scrutiny until after the 2008 presidential election, according to federal archivists at the Clinton presidential library.

Geez...

We can only imagine some of the comments in those 1,000-plus pages that Bill and Hillary consider to be obstacles to their returning to the White House.

 
112. Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:45 AM
danwhy RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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I'm looking forward to seeing how Colbert does, Rasmussen is even tracking his numbers now!


Comedian Colbert Reaches Double Digits As Third-Party Candidate


"We cannot allow a mine shaft gap"

 
113. Sunday, October 28, 2007 7:39 AM
jordan RE: 2008 Presidential Race

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That's great! i know this won't happen, but if there's a time in US history in which an independent comedian could run and WIN, it would be now since so many people are fed up with both sides.


Jordan .

 
114. Monday, October 29, 2007 4:03 PM
danwhy RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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I think it is great, and isn't SC John Edwards land?  Here is what Bill O has to say:


But this Colbert guy is another story. He is promoting his book by running for president, a strategy borrowed from comedian Pat Paulsen of Smothers Brothers fame.

Now, Colbert's run for the presidency is being sponsored by Doritos, which may be illegal. So we hope Colbert is sentenced to prison or to house arrest, where he has to continuously watch his own program. That is what can happen to pinheads.


That kinds of makes me laugh as I have always thought Colbert was basically doing a Bill O impersonation.


"We cannot allow a mine shaft gap"

 
115. Monday, October 29, 2007 5:05 PM
jordan RE: 2008 Presidential Race

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Yeah, I think he is doing a O'Reilly personality. Bill has had Colbert on his show a couple of times, and I remember the first one being really funny.


Jordan .

 
116. Monday, October 29, 2007 5:45 PM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Bill O'Reilly made that comment with Diane Sawyer on her morning show today.  I saw it.  He was clearly being funny.  It was too.  Steven Colbert and O'Reilly together were hilarious.  Colbert alone is hilarious.  O'Reilly rarely is.  But he was funny today.  Intentionally.

 

Susan 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
117. Monday, October 29, 2007 6:25 PM
danwhy RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Would you ever vote for Colbert (or someone like him if available in your state) knowing that:

1)  It is throwing your vote away, but sort of in protest of the "traditional" candidates, and

2)  He won't actually win so it's not like you'd get stuck with him.

I have in the past voted for a fringe party candidate based on the above 2 assumptions


"We cannot allow a mine shaft gap"

 
118. Tuesday, October 30, 2007 9:06 AM
jordan RE: 2008 Presidential Race

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I would do this in a primary, but never in the general election because it's way too important. Voting for a 3rd party that has no chance to win is like half a vote for the person you least want.


Jordan .

 
119. Friday, November 16, 2007 12:13 PM
nuart RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Okay, so there's less than a year to the General Election and I might be willing to start getting excited. 
 
Did anyone watch the Democrats debate last night?  Most interesting, I thought.  Hillary was head and shoulders above the others even if she is,  in actuality, taller than only one of her male competition -- the hilarious Dennis Kucinich. 
 
I am still amazed that John Edwards was once the compelling trial attorney he was reputed to be.  God knows, four years ago I was rooting for him over John Kerry, but he's so un-glib, so un-slick, and so off the mark.  Maybe the illness of his wife has diminished his go-for-the-throat instincts.  He's over. 
 
Bill Richardson made an inane comment about caring more about the rights of Pakistanis over US national security.  it wasn't exactly clear what he was trying to say.  But one thing is certain -- if he was ever seriously being considered for VP, that moment clinched his demise.
 
Obama had moments but only moments.  Hillary standing alongside him as he tried to shoot her down.  You could see the calm wheels in motion as Hillary waited for her turn to pounce once he had stopped speaking. 
 
Biden and Dodd -- fuggidabout it.  Destined to be Senators but never rise to the next level.  
 
It was very interesting.  Everyone said Hillary was smart but after last night, I am ALMOST ready to concede the election.  The general election.  The only question remaining is who will be her VP candidate?  If it's Evan Bayh, wow!  Could be a landslide victory come next November with a Democrat back in the White House PLUS a Democratic congress. 
 
Here is what I noticed:  Hillary is not pandering to the left except to make a persistant point about the "utter failure" of the current administration.  She is being very cagey about staying mainstream.  The old rule of playing to the party base hardcore during primary season and playing to the middle during the general election is over and done.  She knows full well that to win she will need Republicans to vote for her.  I am impressed by her strategy and how well she seems to be accomplishing her goal.  For any Democrat who is not necessarily a Hillary fan, she has the added cachet of being married to Bill Clinton.  I've heard many say privately that they feel they'll have Bill as a co-president and that is a giant plus.  Could she win as a widow or a divorcee?  Doubtful.  
 
Anyway, those are my unusual thoughts this morning.  Subject to change.  I am nothing if not inconsistent, dammit!
 
Susan 


     
“Half a truth is often a great lie.”

 

Ben Franklin

 
120. Sunday, December 9, 2007 4:52 PM
12rainbow RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Hill-Dog is a nazi.  She spoke at my school in Oct. Full of sh*t. 

I just heard Monica Lewinski has said she has her vote... because she want to show support for her gender. Wrong reason to vote for someone.  

 
121. Sunday, December 9, 2007 5:30 PM
jordan RE: 2008 Presidential Race

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i wonder how many women (or men) are supporting Hill-dog because of her being a woman....?


Jordan .

 
122. Monday, December 10, 2007 7:37 PM
The Staring Man RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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The female vote for Hillary will be something to watch; especially since Oprah threw her support to Obama this past weekend.

 

 


"The only thing that Columbus discovered was that he was lost"
 
123. Tuesday, January 1, 2008 2:04 AM
herofix RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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For the Hillary-haters (amongst whom I count myself), a friend just sent me this:

Hope people are talking about this one in the run-up to primaries.  The words 'hoist' and 'petard' spring to mind.

 http://www.metimes.com/Opinion/2007/12/31/op-ed_thomas_houlahan/4473/


An Inverted Pyramid of Piffle
 
124. Tuesday, January 1, 2008 12:57 PM
JVSCant RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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I've yet to get clear on what everyone hates so much extra about Hillary, except that she's actually trying to win...

That being said, the Onion, as always, has the solution to her apparent problem:

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/hillary_clinton_tries_to_woo 


 
125. Tuesday, January 1, 2008 11:13 PM
herofix RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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I can't speak for everybody, but here's two reasons why Hillary makes me get my hate on:

1. I don't dig on the political dynasty idea

2. I don't care for the cut of her gib.  At all.  Not one bit.

 

 


An Inverted Pyramid of Piffle
 

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