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726. Tuesday, November 4, 2008 10:22 PM
KahlanMnel RE: 2008 Presidential Race

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That would be a hoot! :) I'm currently working on a section discussing the Turkish Ottoman empire's influence on Greek culinary habits. It's making me HUNGRY. Mmmmm...mousaka...


~ Amanda

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave..."

 
727. Tuesday, November 4, 2008 10:37 PM
12rainbow RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Well, there goes the Constitution.  I'm disgusted.  Y'all ready for WWIII and massive foreign dependence on oil at the same time? Should be exciting. 

(Buy guns while you still can, and hoard them.  2nd Amendment goes, all the others follow...)

 
728. Tuesday, November 4, 2008 10:39 PM
herofix RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:Well, there goes the Constitution.  I'm disgusted.


 Almost makes you not proud to be an American, eh?  No, wait....

Those pesky voters.

Well, so much for our predictions Jordan.  I was convinced I was onto something with 311 there.

Many props to Susan who basically called this 2 years ago.  And then uncalled it on the eve of the 'More Perfect Union' speech and said it was 'so ovah'.  But still..hella prescient, yo.

Congratulations or commiserations as appropriate to all.  Hell, congratulations to all of you.  He's gonna be a hell of a POTUS.

YES WE CAN!

 


An Inverted Pyramid of Piffle
 
729. Tuesday, November 4, 2008 10:51 PM
12rainbow RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Iraq Transition

No safe way for U.S. to leave Iraq, experts warn

Story Highlights

• Experts paint bleak picture of Iraq if U.S. troops fully withdraw
• Among potential scenarios: al Qaeda terror hub and larger regional conflict
• CNN analyst: "Saudi Arabia will not allow increasing Iranian dominance"
• U.S. general says early pullout would cause "huge vacuum"
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(CNN) -- Pulling U.S. forces from Iraq could trigger catastrophe, CNN analysts and other observers warn, affecting not just Iraq but its neighbors in the Middle East, with far-reaching global implications.

Sectarian violence could erupt on a scale never seen before in Iraq if coalition troops leave before Iraq's security forces are ready. Supporters of al Qaeda could develop an international hub of terror from which to threaten the West. And the likely civil war could draw countries like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Iran into a broader conflict.

President Bush vetoed a war spending bill Tuesday precisely because the Democrat-led Congress required the first U.S. combat troops to be withdrawn by October 1 with a goal of a complete pullout six months later.

Bush said such a deadline would be irresponsible and both sides are now working on new proposals -- which may have no pullout dates.

A rapid withdrawal of all U.S. troops would hurt America's image and hand al Qaeda and other terror groups a propaganda victory that the United States is only a "paper tiger," CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen said. (Send us your reaction)

"It would also play into their strategy, which is to create a mini-state somewhere in the Middle East where they can reorganize along the lines of what they did in Afghanistan in the late '90s," Bergen told CNN.com.

It was in Afghanistan where Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda allied with the Taliban, and were allowed to run terror bases and plan the September 11, 2001 attacks against the United States.

Bergen says it is imperative that the United States not let that happen in Iraq.

"What we must prevent is central/western Iraq [from] becoming a Sunni militant state that threatens our interests directly as an international terror hub," he said.

Don Shepperd, a retired Air Force major-general and military analyst for CNN, agreed that Sunni Muslim fighters who support al Qaeda would seek an enclave inside a lawless Iraq likely riven along sectarian lines into Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish regions.

There would be "increasing attempts by terrorists to establish a training sanctuary in Iraq," Shepperd said.

That's one of the reasons why a fast withdrawal will not happen, whatever the politicians say, the analysts predict. (Watch why a radical Shiite cleric wants U.S. troops out Video)

"Everyone wants the troops home -- the Iraqis, the U.S., the world -- but no one wants a precipitous withdrawal that produces a civil war, a bloodbath, nor a wider war in an unstable Mideast," Shepperd said, adding that the image of the United States was important too.

"And we do not want a U.S that is perceived as having been badly defeated in the global war on terror or as an unreliable future ally or coalition partner."

Shepperd, a veteran fighter pilot of the Vietnam War, has served as a CNN analyst of the Iraq war since it began. Bergen was one of the first Western journalists to ever meet with bin Laden, and is considered a leading authority on al Qaeda.

Shepperd: Oil sector could suffer

Shepperd said Iraq's neighbors would be drawn into the all-out civil war likely if U.S. forces left too quickly. Iran could move in to further strengthen its influence in southern Iraq; Turkey likely would move against the Kurds in the north; and Saudi Arabia would be inclined to take action to protect Sunnis in western Iraq, he said.

The oil sector could also get hit hard, with Iran potentially mining the Persian Gulf and attempting to close the Straits of Hormuz, putting a stranglehold on oil flow, Shepperd says.

"Oil prices would skyrocket," he said -- perhaps soaring from current prices of about $60 a barrel to more than $100 a barrel, with consequent rises at the gas pump.

And that could bring further trouble, Shepperd added. "Saudi Arabia will not allow increasing Iranian dominance to endanger its regime and oil economy."

On top of that, Iran could speed up its nuclear ambitions, causing a "daunting and depressing scenario" of a nuclear arms race in the Middle East with Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt and Turkey trying to get a nuclear bomb, Shepperd says.

Observers such as Jon Alterman, director of the Middle East program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, say a wider Mideast conflict could be avoided.

But Alterman also fears that an Iraq left without U.S. support could turn into a center for international terrorism and a proxy battlefield for regional powers like Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia.

"All the surrounding countries would think their interests are much better maintained not by directly sending troops but by continuing to send money and weapons to the people fighting that war," he said.

"In my judgment, it would take decades for such an insurgency to quiet down."

There are 120,000 Iraq soldiers now classified as trained by the U.S. military in Iraq, along with 135,000 police force members. But the head of the Iraqi ground forces, Gen. Ali Ghiran-Majeed, recently told CNN that some of his soldiers don't even get paid, and that on any given day one quarter of the force is on vacation.

For U.S. troops on the ground, the idea of withdrawal is vexing.

"I think it would cause a huge vacuum that the enemies of Iraq -- enemies of the government -- would take advantage of," said U.S. Brig. Gen. Dana Pittard, the commander of the Iraq Assistance Group.

Staff Sgt. Matthew St. Pierre is one U.S. soldier who's come to the conclusion the United States cannot win the war, but he says he also fears the consequences of withdrawal.

"We are the buffer right now and when we pull out, the people who support us are going to feel the wrath, and the people who are against us ... they're going to ultimately win. And I think that's unfortunate," he said.

That is a prognosis that concerns many, though Shepperd sees a viable solution for Iraq, albeit one with a U.S. presence there for years to come.

"Done properly we should be in Iraq for years, not in a combat [role], but an embedded advisory role," he said.

CNN Correspondent Hugh Riminton in Baghdad and CNN.com Producer Wayne Drash in Atlanta contributed to this story.

 

******

Wheeeeeee for President Hussein.  We are so f*cked, guys...

 
730. Tuesday, November 4, 2008 11:00 PM
jordan RE: 2008 Presidential Race

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"He's gonna be a hell of a POTUS."

Time will tell, but it's going to be interesting. :-)


Jordan .

 
731. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 12:34 AM
JVSCant RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:

Well, there goes the Constitution


What, that old thing?  There's some left?


 
732. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 2:26 AM
Ditte RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Congratulations too all of you from Denmark!!! 


Yeah but no but yeah but no but....
 
733. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 4:31 AM
x-ray RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Yes, congratulations America. I'll be flying to NYC tomorrow... such a shame I missed the big event.


x-ray
if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...

 
734. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 8:57 AM
LetsRoque RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Wheeeeeee for President Hussein.  We are so f*cked, guys...


Hmm nice mix of bigotry and fear mongering there. Well done.

 

 


'I look for an opening, do you understand?'
 
735. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 9:24 AM
coolspringsj RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Satan just received the U.S. in a handbasket in his mailbox.


"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

 
736. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 9:33 AM
x-ray RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Well I can tell you, from outside the States, there is an overwhelming feeling of optimism for the first time in maybe 8 years. Thank God for that. Jeez what a mess Obama has to sort out.


x-ray
if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...

 
737. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 9:49 AM
coolspringsj RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:Well I can tell you, from outside the States, there is an overwhelming feeling of optimism for the first time in maybe 8 years. Thank God for that. Jeez what a mess Obama has to sort out.

 Of course they are.  We are moving towards European socialism and the terrorists have nothing to be afraid of now.


"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

 
738. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 9:55 AM
bio_hazard RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:

Well, there goes the Constitution.  I'm disgusted.  Y'all ready for WWIII and massive foreign dependence on oil at the same time? Should be exciting. 

(Buy guns while you still can, and hoard them.  2nd Amendment goes, all the others follow...)


Thank goodness I can find statements like this funny rather than scary now.  Can't wait til Obama nominates Hillary for the next open SCOTUS seat and watch heads exploding all over the country.



 
739. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 10:02 AM
x-ray RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:
QUOTE:Well I can tell you, from outside the States, there is an overwhelming feeling of optimism for the first time in maybe 8 years. Thank God for that. Jeez what a mess Obama has to sort out.

 Of course they are.  We are moving towards European socialism and the terrorists have nothing to be afraid of now.


Haha x 1000 or more. Are people still buying into that fear propaganda?

 

Seriously though, anything you guys can do to move closer to 'European socialism' would be a really good move right now. European socialism LOL.

 


x-ray
if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...

 
740. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 10:05 AM
coolspringsj RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:
QUOTE:
QUOTE:Well I can tell you, from outside the States, there is an overwhelming feeling of optimism for the first time in maybe 8 years. Thank God for that. Jeez what a mess Obama has to sort out.

 Of course they are.  We are moving towards European socialism and the terrorists have nothing to be afraid of now.


Haha x 1000 or more. Are people still buying into that fear propaganda?

 

Seriously though, anything you guys can do to move closer to 'European socialism' would be a really good move right now. European socialism LOL.

 

People with half a brain in our country believe in working hard and making money for themselves, not redistribution of wealth from the people who bust their asses to be given to lazy people who want handouts.
 


"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

 
741. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 10:14 AM
hopesfall RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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My feelings about the USA presidential race?

Mixed.

 
742. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 10:14 AM
x-ray RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:
QUOTE:
QUOTE:
QUOTE:Well I can tell you, from outside the States, there is an overwhelming feeling of optimism for the first time in maybe 8 years. Thank God for that. Jeez what a mess Obama has to sort out.

 Of course they are.  We are moving towards European socialism and the terrorists have nothing to be afraid of now.


Haha x 1000 or more. Are people still buying into that fear propaganda?

 

Seriously though, anything you guys can do to move closer to 'European socialism' would be a really good move right now. European socialism LOL.

 

People with half a brain in our country believe in working hard and making money for themselves, not redistribution of wealth from the people who bust their asses to be given to lazy people who want handouts.
 

Yep because that's what Europe is all about. We just all live on handouts and no-one works hard or has any values. You are so well informed.

I remember only 8 years ago the USA's biggest problem was what to do about their TRADE SURPLUS! LOL, trade SURPLUS!! Seems like a fairy tale now.


x-ray
if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...

 
743. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 10:21 AM
coolspringsj RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:
QUOTE:
QUOTE:
QUOTE:
QUOTE:Well I can tell you, from outside the States, there is an overwhelming feeling of optimism for the first time in maybe 8 years. Thank God for that. Jeez what a mess Obama has to sort out.

 Of course they are.  We are moving towards European socialism and the terrorists have nothing to be afraid of now.


Haha x 1000 or more. Are people still buying into that fear propaganda?

 

Seriously though, anything you guys can do to move closer to 'European socialism' would be a really good move right now. European socialism LOL.

 

People with half a brain in our country believe in working hard and making money for themselves, not redistribution of wealth from the people who bust their asses to be given to lazy people who want handouts.
 

Yep because that's what Europe is all about. We just all live on handouts and no-one works hard or has any values. You are so well informed.

I remember only 8 years ago the USA's biggest problem was what to do about their TRADE SURPLUS! LOL, trade SURPLUS!! Seems like a fairy tale now.


 I'm not a fan of BIG government or BIG taxes.


"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

 
744. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 10:29 AM
JVSCant RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Seriously, I've been mostly avoiding this forum for the last few months, but now some of you are making it reeeeeeally hard not to gloat.

The Enron Presidency is coming to a close.  Your nation might start winning again.  Lighten up, it's a good day by nearly every measure.

Look at the last two terms.  YOU CAN'T DO WORSE.


 
745. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 10:29 AM
x-ray RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:

Seriously, I've been mostly avoiding this forum for the last few months, but now some of you are making it reeeeeeally hard not to gloat.

The Enron Presidency is coming to a close.  Your nation might start winning again.  Lighten up, it's a good day by nearly every measure.


 It's the truth. Let the good times roll.


x-ray
if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...

 
746. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 10:33 AM
coolspringsj RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Our country is weakening as the global superpower and is about to go from the frying pan into the fire.


"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

 
747. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 10:42 AM
x-ray RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:Our country is weakening as the global superpower and is about to go from the frying pan into the fire.


Oh dude, are you serious? Really???


x-ray
if your back's against the wall, turn around and write on it...

 
748. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 10:42 AM
bio_hazard RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:Our country is weakening as the global superpower and is about to go from the frying pan into the fire.


 Other countries might actually start emulating us because they admire our values and policies, rather than just being afraid the neo-con hawks will get all 'regime-changy'

 

If I've learned anything from Sid Meiers Civilization, there's more than one way  to "win".

 
749. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 10:49 AM
coolspringsj RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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Judging by the crowd (READ sheep) that were crying and dancing and chanting and nodding in unison last night in Chicago, one would have thought Jesus Christ had walked onto the stage.


"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it, don't wait for it, just let it happen. Could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot, black coffee. Like this."  -Dale Cooper

 
750. Wednesday, November 5, 2008 11:07 AM
bio_hazard RE: 2008 Presidential Race


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QUOTE:Judging by the crowd (READ sheep) that were crying and dancing and chanting and nodding in unison last night in Chicago, one would have thought Jesus Christ had walked onto the stage.

 Yes, damn them.  Not like the classy crowd at McCain's speech (amazing speech by the way).

 

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